Women should be prevented from drug taking in pregnancy

[Caterpillarsleftfoot]

I have just come back from a holiday with my nephew's who were exposed to drugs in utero (adopted). I'm also a school teacher who has taught drug and alcohol exposed children.

Seeing the challenges they face made me think why on earth it is allowed.

If you hurt your child every day when they are 6 months, 2 years, 5 years old then they are removed from your care. Why are you allowed to hurt an unborn baby? If a woman is known to take drugs or daily alcohol, then why is she not taken into a protective custody in a hospital/ secure unit for the remainder of the pregnancy to prevent her harming the child?

It’s a woman’s choice what she puts into her own body.

Sure

Keep them chained up for 9 months? 🙄

This is one of those uncomfortable truths… you can’t believe in in bodily autonomy in the mother for some things and not others.

Unborn babies don't have any rights OP. You can't hold women until they give birth, it's very handmaid's tale like. You can't put rules in place where language like "allowed' can be used against women.

Agree that choosing to take drugs and alcohol when pregnant is horrific and absolutely wrong, but of course all the 'it's not human, she can do whatever she wants while it's in her body' will be out in force!

Can you explain the logistics of how this would be enforced? I imagine it would require compulsory blood tests involving restraint of any women who didn't consent.

Also, why stop at pregnancy? Perhaps we should prevent all women who aren't in optimal health from becoming pregnant as a number of conditions including diabetes, obesity etc can increase long term risks for unborn babies.

While we're at it, let's make sure that only those who have no family history of genetic diseases get pregnant.

See where this is heading?

How do you propose to enforce this? What drugs are included in the ban?

How would do you propose we enforce something like that?

I agree in an ideal world pregnant women wouldn’t choose to drink or take drugs.

But it is still the woman’s decision. Anything else is a slippery slope towards the kind of Handmaid’s Tale dystopia.

Would you advocate for women contemplating an abortion to be locked up to prevent them carrying through with it, same principle really, remove a woman’s right over her own body. I imagine there are some folks in the USA who might be persuaded though.

It's bodily autonomy OP. Medically speaking patients are allowed to make unwise decisions provided they understand the consequences. Presumably the mother understands and as a result all the care professions can do is advise not to.

Until that baby is born they cannot be classed as "at risk" just because mum takes drugs / drinks.

Plus forcing someone to go into hospital against their will is a depravation of their liberty and this cannot happen unless there are very extreme circumstances and would be in the patients well-being taking everything else and all other alternatives into account , and being pregnant wouldn't be classed as an extreme circumstance.

The babies are often taken away once they have given birth. I know this is not the same though. I used to foster children who had been damaged in the womb by drugs/alcohol, it's incredibly sad. I believe in some USA states they pay drug addicts to be steriised. I think that's a good idea.

Unenforceable.

I mean yeah it would be great if pregnant women didn't take drugs/smoke/drink but overall I'd rather live in a society that allowed pregnant women to make choices (even choices I don't like and wouldn't make myself) than one that didn't!

Because it is her body and a foetus doesn't have any rights.

Because it is a slippery slope regarding bodily autonomy, especially if we are talking about before 24 weeks when the same woman would have access to an abortion.

A woman either has bodily autonomy or she doesn't, we can't pick and choose.

It’s incredibly sad I agree. I suppose what can do they do? Have the child taken at birth but the damage is already done, as you know.

Where do you think these women should be put? There isn't enough places for users .. any users..
They have human rights too. Can't enforce dystopia.

No one will tell you they think it’s right for a pregnant woman to take recreational drugs. It’s clearly not. But people will say (correctly) that the state can’t start policing what pregnant women put into their bodies.

If women were locked up to prevent them taking drugs in pregnancy there would be women who would conceal the pregnancy. That would create a poor outcome for the baby as some need emergency intervention.

You can use the word baby, especially in the second and their trimesters. Because it is. Even if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

Because then she perhaps wouldn't access antenatal care. Or she might lie to the midwife and state she doesn't take drugs or consume alcohol. She might turn up at labour ward/ED unbooked or, even worse, deliver at home unattended. What would happen to the baby then?

Where would you draw the line? Some women take necessary medication which can have a detrimental affect on the fetus. Maybe she consumed alcohol or took drugs (recreational or prescribed) before knowing she was pregnant. What if she has stopped since being known to take drugs? What about alcohol, how much would a woman have to consume before being taken into custody? - would this allowance be per day/week or across her whole pregnancy? Who would police it and count up the units?

Fetal alcohol syndrome and babies who are born addicted to drugs are very sad but your solution is impractical.

I'm surprised a teacher can't work out why this is a very very silly and dangerous idea.

Imagine how many more psychiatric wards would be needed to support this plan? MH services are stretched enough as it is.
Or would you bring back Magdalene style laundries?
What about the working pregnant women? Are they just supposed to stop working because they've been committed?
If they have other children, who is going to look after those children for the duration?
What about the smoking and drinking women? Should they be rounded up too?
More to the point, who is going to fund the extra wards, doctors, nurses and loss of earnings?
How are you going to get them there? Drag them by the hair kicking and screaming?
Come on now op!

ummm because women are not objects, “vessels” to provide safe harbour to their unborn children. If you go down this route where does end? Maybe pregnant women should be locked in a cage and fed broccoli for 9 months.

unborn children don’t have independent rights when they are still part of their mother’s body.

I see where you’re coming from OP.

I am fiercely pro choice but I think that creating a drug or alcohol damaged child, who will suffer the consequences, and may need looking after their whole life, is different from choosing to abort.

I can see an argument for compulsory contraceptive implant for women who’ve already had at least one child removed for addiction reasons, until they have been clean for some time. It’s very very difficult though as it is a slippery slope. As pp say, do you then apply the same rule to anyone who might pass on a genetic condition, etc.