To ask Horsey people about this

[Fightyouforthatpie]

That woman who was filmed kicking and hitting the pony has been acquitted. I am in no way commenting on that - due process has been followed and she is entitled to that just like anyone else.
My question, as I am ignorant of this kind of thing, is, "is this sort of treatment in general normal and considered OK?"
I grew up in a rural area, but I can'r recall anyone treating their ponies and horses that way - on the other hand I am willing to accept I don't have the full picture.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-66605870

Ah hello @StrawberryWater, have you come to be called scum too?! 😂

To quote Will Ferrel in Anchorman, well that escalated quickly 😂

I think the idea that the woman hurt the horse is frankly ridiculous, horses live in herds are built to withstand being kicked by another horse so her frail slapping won't have caused any harm.

The fact she punished it for returning to her is absolutely fucking stupid though because next time she expects it to come to her it will remember that. It shows an incredibly poor understanding of animal behaviour overall and a total inability to control her temper under even the slightest but of pressure. I wouldn't allow her near my horses.

@Anotherparkingthread I don't know any horse that would punch another horse in the face 🙄. One of the most sensitive parts of the horse and guaranteed way to make your horse head shy.

I have seen very similar behaviour reasonably frequently in the horse world, though.

The event was filmed and edited by hunt sabs, some of the nastiest people on the planet. So I would not believe it. I have never kicked my horse.

I used to keep a lot of horses (50 plus) on 600 acres at my farm, and often had all the youngstock running as a herd with a few old retired mares. Very often the mares would discipline the youngsters with a swift kick. It's just how they communicate, get out of my space, don't behave like that near me, this is my feed etc. It's good for the yearlings to learn some manners from the older horses that's why I put them together.

As I said I'm not agreeing with her actions but you would have to believe that woman was incredibly strong to think she had any real physical effect on the horse.

I think you will find a lot of people who say this is awful but that a lot of those horsey people will also do comparatively awful things.

People at all levels are horrendous to horses. They are controlled with metal rods in their mouths and they use metal spiky things on their boots to prod horses with. They are often forced into a shape that people think is correct but is awful for their musculature development. I have no doubt that some people saying this is awful have ridden their horse in a saddle that doesn't fit, causing pain for hours at a time, or have lost their balance jumping or when the horse gets scared and ended up pulling metal through their mouth. Children up and down the country will kick a pony in the sides to make it jump. Turn up to spectate at any local or higher level show and you will be shocked.

Horses put up with a lot because of their evolution; they are herd animals which means they tend to go along with what the herd around them is doing and take the path of least resistance. This does not mean they enjoy what is being asked of them and 'wouldn't do it if they didn't want to.'

The horse world needs to take a very painful look at itself as so much of it is disgusting.

@Anotherparkingthread my point is that horses don't punch each other so you can't compare what she did to horses within a herd.
I can't believe that any horse owner would excuse what she did. The bone around the end of the nose is actually extremely fragile and thin so it wouldn't take much force to fracture it however that is irrelevant. One of the first things taught in horsemanship is that you never, ever hit a horse on its head! The second is that you never discipline out of anger or frustration. Even my 11 Yr old DD knows this as they are taught it from early on in Pony Club ( ironically she is a PC instructor).

Yes they dont punch but only on account of not having fists. They kick, because they do not have arms or hands. They do however have large hooves sometimes with lumps of metal attached. What don't you understand? Do you think a human punch is more powerful than a kick from another horse? Because a horses kick is 1200 to 2000psi and a human punch is 120 to 150psi... and that's if you punched as hard as you could which she did not.

And if you really really want to get in to it then watch some videos pf animal documentaries especially Stallions because they do get on their hinds and box. So I suppose they do punch.

I understand it all thank you but I stand by what I say that you can't compare the 2 at all. A horse will only kick another horse to enforce herd dynamics/hierarchy, this woman punched her horse out of anger/frustration. Are you saying that humans are incapable of hurting a horse? Because that is just nonsense.
You just can not compare what horses do naturally within a herd to the actions of this woman. Chalk and cheese.

And usually they are threat kicks and grimaces rather than making contact

They aren't chalk and cheese though they are both blunt force trauma only one has comparably under 10percent the force of the other.
I am not saying humans are incapable of hurting a horse, I am saying that what the video shows, the specific video this thread is about, does not show a horse being injured by the woman. She comparably does not have the strength to do any physical damage in this way. I don't think you understand, you may dislike the womans actions, that is fine, but her being in the wrong doesnt give her super powers. You can't pretend the physical forces at play are different, a blow is a blow and horses are built to run with other horses.

@Anotherparkingthread OK if you want to get pedantic then horses in herds have space around them to get out of the way if another horse threatens to kick them. This horse was being restrained before it was punched, it couldn't get away from her. Also horses use body language such as ears back before they kick/bite, they use that body language to warn the other horse before a kick is landed. Most times that initial body language is all that is needed, if not then a kick may ensue but very rarely does it make contact with another horse. In fact I'm sat here now watching my horse in its herd, lots of body language going on which means no need for actual physical contact.
I completely understand what you mean about the forces involved but it does sound like you are minimising what she did.

I’m as horsey as they come and I think her behaviour was appalling. It is depressingly common in some sectors of the horse world though.

I don’t think it’s an acceptable way to treat any animal, but I also think it’s spectacularly poor training and absolutely lacking in any understanding of horsemanship. The verdict in this case is truly shit.

It is not ok but I have seen similar terrible behaviour i.e a pony club instructor throwing a full water bottle at a horse’s back legs to get it to go into water.

This was my thoughts. So sad.

She's a vile human and it was a pathetic verdict.

What would have been better to have seen would have been post verdict when Mrs Mould stood on the steps outside the court blaming everyone and anyone else including the poney for her actions, if instead she’d said how sorry she was about how she ‘lost control’, and what a shameful way she behaved to this sweet poney who went back to the others only to get beaten up, that she realizes what an awful example she showed to everyone but especially the youngsters there, and that she was truely and utterly embarrassed and remorseful for her actions. 😞

@GonnaGetGoingReturns
No, I wouldn't say that it's more one class of person or another.
I've known it to be people who aren't over-blessed with brains- be they 'posh' or not.

I know people who know Sarah Moulds. They are absolutely horrified by her behaviour and the verdict. One of them is in his 90s- so a very old school horseman who would never, ever treat a horse like that.

Game birds at least have a chance at being free, and evading a shotgun.
Battery hens do not.
I don’t shoot by the way- But I’d rather be free with a chance than captive without.

An ex friend of my daughter slashed her pony across the face with her whip behind a horse box at a show. Daughter and I reported her to the organisers. Nothing happened.

Absolutely she should have got a conviction. She was awful.

I've removed people from a show ground for violence to their horse, and i have walked in to a warm up area and taken a whip off a child on many occasions over the years for excessive use (i run an annual horse show and have stewarded at many others)

That being said, i have one gelding we use to "nanny" the obnoxious colts and fillies. he certainly does train them with violence and they are much nicer because of it 😂
Horses can be extremely nasty to each other, sometimes i watch mine and think they woke up and chose violence! I've got a 2 year old at the minute that seems too stupid to work out he's being pushed down the herd pecking order and would rather be a punch bag for a couple of them.

Ahhh see we have the internet’s equivalent to hunt sabs out in force.

I would rather go field to fork all day long with animals that have been raised in natural surroundings, on my doorstep, which are then afforded a quick death with a purpose than eat mass produced, sub standard meat flown in unnecessarily.

I wonder how many of these folk who brand us ‘scum’ would actually take you up on the offer of a day out to see how the countryside ACTUALLY works?

Why do people think those who don't like hunting/shooting would automatically be fans of intense factory farming or have zero idea about the countryside. Farming, meat production and the country is not a bubble that only a few have the secret to 😂

I've always had horses and am completely disgusted at her behaviour. However, like so many other have said, she is far from alone.

One disappointing thing though, is that the roughness and violence does get results. Not always and not long term, but I've often seen a trainer or instructor take over a non-complying horse, get rough and have the horse yield in seconds. So the only way to stop this kind of animal abuse is to have legal sanctions against it or people will just continue. And this case has gone so totally against that 😔

You're 100% right. Of course it hurt that horse to be hit around the head. Just because other horses can sometimes cause more pain to each other with their hooves than a person might cause with their fists, doesn't mean that both things don't hurt.
What a shame to see a fellow horse owner trotting out the old 'horses do worst to each other' line. However it does demonstrate how poor treatment of horses is accepted by many who supposedly love them, and how they justify it to themselves. We humans should be better than that.