To sleep train my 4 month old?

[Livingoncaffeine]

I’m at my wits end with my 4mo DS. He used to sleep great, only waking a couple of times a night, until about two or three weeks ago. Now he wakes 7 or 8 times a night, the only thing that will stop him screaming the house down is breastfeeding. He’s been on my boob basically since 4am this morning, despite waking constantly before that.

I know it’s the four month sleep regression but I can’t handle much more of this. DS1 went through the same thing and didn’t sleep for more than two hours until I stopped breastfeeding.

I’ve been trying to follow a routine as much as I can with a toddler around, making sure he gets plenty of day sleep, and where possible I try not to feed him to sleep so he doesn’t become reliant on it but in the night he will literally scream hysterically until I feed him.

I’ve tried giving him a bottle before bed, no difference.

Is 4 months old too young to sleep train? Does anyone have any advice on how to do this. Or do I really need to just wait it out.

I’ve been resorting to letting him sleep on his front for occasional stints recently because that’s the way he’ll settle best, but I know it’s not ideal so I’d rather do something that is safer.

Have also been drinking far too much coffee to try to get through this so sadly need to cut back on that to see if it makes a difference.

TLDR - my 4mo is broken and won’t sleep. Is he too young to sleep train?

the 4m sleep regression is brutal, I feel your pain! It’s utter misery. But you know it won’t last forever and you know 4m is too early to sleep train, you’re just miserable and tired understandably. Having a toddler whilst having a new baby go through that and ebf is the hardest thing I’ve ever done (except potty training said toddler).

I think getting your head in the right place, and accepting it will be this way for a few more weeks, planning little and resting in the day when you can. It will improve.

if you do want to sleep train, start at 6m with naps gently. At 4m he’s feeding because he’s hungry!

sending lots of solidarity

Yes it's too young. 8 months is minimum age I believe.

@Catsonskis I do know deep down you’re right but my god I forgot how hard it is! I think what’s worse is knowing how long this lasted with DS1, so I can’t just tell myself ‘this is a phase, it will pass’ etc. Miserable and tired is an accurate description of me right now.

i do think it’s a bit young but this book has been a massive help for me, focusing on things like feeding to help sleep https://www.amazon.co.uk/7pm-7am-Sleeping-Baby-Routine/dp/1785041762

I know British people tend to say not before 6 months but I don’t know if there’s actually any evidence for that? When I lived in the US 4 months is the typical age to start, and is what your paediatrician will likely recommend. Maybe something to do with the short maternity leaves, but doesn’t seem to have ill effects.

Firstly, you can’t train sleep. It’s developmental, so it happens when they’re able to.

All you can train is for them not to call you when they need you - sleep trained babies wake just as much, they just don’t call for help even though they’re distressed. That’s not a lesson I’d want my baby to learn.

And secondly, even attempting to train would be abuse at this age.

@TropicalTrama Honestly I have no idea what the guidance is here. I have two guides from various sleep consultancy businesses and they start from three - four months.

@TheBarbieEffect I’m not talking about CIO. But a lot of sleep guides with other methods seem to start from this age. Ofc I swore I wasn’t going to read such things and would just follow baby’s lead before I had him, funny how quick that changes when sleep deprived 🙈

I am wondering if switching to ff would help or if I’d have the same issues but with the faff of bottles. I know research has suggested ff babies don’t sleep any better than ebf babies but anecdotally all my friends who ff have always had better sleepers than the ones who bf

Sleep training works. It will have MNers coming out in their droves telling you it's child abuse. It's not. Just be aware of that!

A baby like an adult will wake up and toss and turn during the night, the training just teaches them that they don't need mummy/daddy to help get them back over every time they wake from a cycle.

The end result is they sleep better, you sleep better and then the day times you can be the best parent you need to be for your baby! It was quite literally life changing in our family! Far happier and healthier people all round!

4 months is advised as a typical age to start. I started at 5 months old. I didn't do long periods of cry it out. The Ferber method is gentle, consistent, least traumatising and it works!!

Sleep training isn't for everyone...quite often the alternative is potentially months and years of co-sleeping, stroking/rocking to sleep, multiple night wakenings, disrupted sleep for parent and child...all of which many parents are willing to do instead. So each to their own.

but if you're consistent...it will work and your baby will not resent you for it. It takes from 4 nights to at least (at worst) 2 weeks to conquer. It was a sacrifice I was willing (and glad!) I made!!

I'm curious why you think letting your child cry out is safer than letting them sleep on their tummy, neither are recommended but one is something your child actually wants? We let DS side sleep as a baby because it worked for him, none of us are back sleepers so it seemed logical. If he's turning over because he's comfier sleeping on his tummy then try moving him to his side instead as a halfway measure and it might help him to sleep.

@GRex did I say cry it out? From what I’m aware there are lots of different sleep training methods, most of which aren’t cry it out. That’s why I asked for advice.

@scoobycute Thank you that’s really reassuring. I didn’t sleep train with my first and I was miserable. This time I’m more of the view that a happy mum makes for a happier baby (and toddler). Plus he is grumpy when he doesn’t sleep so it’s clearly not working for him either at the moment.

Hi OP, I’m currently raising my second who is also a non-sleeper. It’s really hard, but it will pass! Find a middle ground where baby gets the comfort he needs, and you get enough rest to function through the difficult times.
For what it’s worth this is what I do:
DH fully in charge of 4yo in the evenings (bath, story, bed).
I focus on baby and until 6mo old just went to sleep with him.
At 6mo he was moved into his own room on a floor bed. So now I breastfeed him to sleep and combat roll and exit the room. When he wakes I go in for a quick feed, he usually gets back to sleep quickly. Any wake up after 10pm I just stay with him and co-sleep safely (C-shape around him, no blanket etc).

@7Worfs Thank you, sending solidarity. When he moves rooms he’ll be going in with his brother so I don’t think that will happen for a while. My partner is in the spare room so we have his next to me crib attached to the bed with side down and sometimes I just leave him in our bed. I really really need to start going to bed when he does (around 7.30 recently) but it’s hard because that’s also when my toddler goes to bed and I just want a teeny tiny bit of me time. Fortunately DP is doing most toddler bedtimes and gets up with toddler every morning so we are splitting it as best as we can.

OP, buy and read the Ferber book.

He advises that's 3mo is possible but on the younger side, but 4mo is generally suitable.

There's also a good Facebook group about Ferber sleep training.

Some people call it bad parenting to do Ferber, I call it bad parenting to not teach a baby who is struggling to sleep, to sleep!

I really think that being worried a 4month old will become dependent on bf to sleep is a bit premature.
Are you holding off feeding to see if he’ll settle and then he is more awake and distressed than he would have been if you’d just latched him on to start with? Is he having a growth spurt and genuinely hungry?

Sleep regression wasn’t a thing when mine were babies, they just changed their sleep patterns at times. I do remember that it took about 4 months for bfing to settle down.

@Livingoncaffeine I know too well needing some time to decompress! It gradually starts to get better after 6mo, but it tends to be a rollercoaster of ok and bad sleeping because of teething, growth spurts, first germs (when starting nursery)… at least breastfeeding calms them and comforts them quickly.
Hang in there 💐 and co-sleep if you have to for now. Then when they share, you and your husband can take turns to do bedtime. And before you know it, they’d prefer to play and talk to each other rather than have you in the room 🤭

@Peony654 what's the gist of the mead book? I've tried save our sleep but it's too restrictive. From the Amazon reviews looks like this is similar, feed 4 hourly and no sleep aids plus lots of burping. Anything else?

Something like pick up/put down you can start at 4 months I believe. That 7am to 7pm book is really good. I have an 11 month old non sleeper and really wish I had taken some action earlier. Could you combi feed as a compromise? My DD has been combi fed from early on, and has a bottle of formula before bed....it hasn't helped us but you could try this. Better than giving up bf completely (unless you want to of course!) X

There are several methods. Apart from normal behavioural training where you set up a routine until baby is comfortable, which presumably you already do and which is not the quick fix you want at this age, all of them lead to the baby crying. The only difference is where you are and how long until you soothe the baby. Do what you like, it's your baby, I was only asking why you wouldn't first consider letting your baby lie comfortably to sleep if he doesn't like to be on his back. Why is leaving him to "self soothe" (cry) a better option for you than side sleeping?

@Nojb You can’t teach sleep 🤦‍♀️ It isn’t a skill.

@Livingoncaffeine I wouldn't recommend switching to FF unless you think your baby isn't getting enough milk or something.

My second DS was exclusively BF and he woke 3 hourly for a feed initially and he more or less skipped the 4 month sleep regression. By 6 months he was waking once a night on average after being put down at 8pm. And it was a quick max 15-20 minutes before being back in bed. Also he always fed to sleep and was always an amazing sleeper, it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

He slept through completely from 11 months 8pm - 6/7am.

I sleep trained DS1 so he slept through from being 16 weeks old, but his sleeping through meant he woke for the day at 5am 😭. So in hindsight I should've just left well alone and let him have his night time wake up.

So I personally wouldn't recommend trying to switch to formula. But... How about getting your partner to do the first half of the night? So you do the last feed of the day and then pass to your partner. You go and get some sleep but then your partner deals with any wake ups until whenever you think the next feed should be, maybe try stretching 4hrs between overnight feeds of you can? Then 5hrs etc.

Co-sleep.

Why would you leave a baby to scream? Presumably you wouldn't do that to an adult.

It's only for a short period of time.

Presumably because side and front sleeping cause an increased risk of SIDS, whereas sleep training doesn’t? Fine for an older baby who can turn themselves over but I would be very cautious with a 4mo

The risk is if the baby cannot turn. He's 4 months old and he is the one putting himself on his tummy according to OP. I would worry more about overly distressed children than one that can turn over to get comfy.