To think that democracy isn't necessarily the best form of government?

[Thebestwaytoscareatory]

For example, I'm interested in politics and governance and have spent time learning about the topic, yet my vote counts exactly as much as someone who thinks all brown people are rapists or that all women are nothing more than broodmares.

This doesn't sit right with me. Surely we should acknowledge that some opinions are not as valid as others and take steps to ensure that the lowest common denominator isn't represented equally at elections?

Given that help and assistance is provided for groups such as these, they are not disenfranchised.

The Electoral Commission holds Northern Ireland ID requirements up as a successful model. The GB model is based on this.

ID requirement to vote is normal right across Europe. What is NOT normal is to exclude people on the basis of intelligence via tests. The aforementioned groups would concretely and absolutely be excluded under those.

No, that's a non-starter. 🤦‍♂️

What about adults with learning disabilities? People with short term memory loss? Prople who are functionally illiterate? They are massively vulnerable and dependent on the government providing them with the services they need. Do you think people with learning disabilities shouldn't be allowed to vote?

I think those in favour of pass a test before you vote didn’t want these people voting. This test would rule them out.

This happens with the current system of voting. If you are in some way intellectually incapable of organising registering to the electoral roll, attending the polling station or organising a postal vote then unless support is specifically requested it’s unlikely to be offered ime.

This happens with the current system of voting. If you are in some way intellectually incapable of organising registering to the electoral roll, attending the polling station or organising a postal vote then unless support is specifically requested it’s unlikely to be offered ime.

So why add to these problems with a test? Even fewer people would be able to vote.

I think part of the issue is if people start voting with oh I liked his hair ect rather than what's better for the country overall.

This thread is actually quite scary in the way that authoritarian posters (I'm trying not to use the word 'fascist' but it's quite apt) are presenting their cases for stopping others voting, as if any of these ideas is reasonable. Trying to argue for banning other people voting.

are presenting their cases for stopping others voting, as if any of these ideas is reasonable.

Yes. Also a number of the posters who regularly comment on political threads are silent on this issue.

I think part of the issue is if people start voting with oh I liked his hair ect rather than what's better for the country overall.

Hawkins so are you in favour of this test? Also, even if the voter passes the test there’s still nothing stopping them from voting because they like the candidate’s hair. Do you think candidates from Count Binface, Monster Raving Loony Party should be banned?

This, 100%. I hope the OP and posters such as TrishM80 are just winding us up. Democracy has its flaws (and the ‘first past the post’ voting system is rubbish), but it is pretty much essential.

@CheeseCakeSunflowers Ive been in the former Speakers constituency too. The one that voted Labour and elected the con Robert Maxwell as the MP.

@SerendipityJane 75,000 voters sounds far too few. If you look at Blair’s majority and Thatchers, far more people switched than 75,000. However there are clearly swing seats. There’s a huge list of those now. Although 1 vote in each could swing it either way.

I don't have enough analysis to offer a qualified answer

There's a vote on brexit ,one the one side, voters are basing their vote on newspaper headlines, another group has studied all the policies, and the whole debate of for and against brexit.

Which group would you prefer voted for brexit ?

@SerendipityJane75,000 voters sounds far too few.

It's very easy.

List constituencies by their margin. Smallest to highest.

Now sum all the margins in the seats that made up the majority to the winning party. In the 2019 election that's the first 49 seats. Annoyingly my dataset seems suspect with some null results (thank you HMG) but I get c. 88,000 votes that decided what government we got. Admittedly as an artificial cohort. But certainly not a number even a mediocre TikTokker would be impressed by.

The other option, we let artificial intelligence choose the next political party to run the United kingdom.

I would rather nobody was allowed to vote for Brexit. It was the start of this country going down the pan. We are a representative democracy. We vote for people who have access to all the facts to make decisions in our best interests. We are irretrievably divided as a country as a result of the referendum. But actually, it wasn't just racist dimwits moaning about immigration who voted for Brexit. It was degree educated intelligent people like James Dyson who voted for it because he didn't want to pay more corporation tax. And the far left who voted for it because they think the EU is a capitalist cabal. There were Black and Brown people who voted for Brexit. Just because people look into things and read up on it doesn't mean they can't disagree with other people who read.

This is a False Dilemma Fallacy since society is not made up of just these two groups and other permutations exist to balance extremes out.

Additionally, do you have any empirical data to support your hypothesis?

When the elected representatives cannot make their minds up, they can, will and do put it to the people. That's not unusual at all.

Parliament voted to allow the electorate to vote on the question of EU membership. The Cameron Government clearly believed Remain would win and they campaigned for it.

However, when politicians take the voters fir granted, they end up with situations they didn't expect. Not just Brexit, e.g. Labour took voters for granted in Scotland and soon found themselves out of favour as well as replaced by the awful SNP.

For hard data, you only have to ask various members of the general public how or what influences their voting, and I'll bet a very small majority will say they have read the policies, manifesto, ect in detail,

Thought as much. You should've just said you had none instead of posting useless rhetoric! 🤦‍♂️

This thread is a joke. It's a SNat knowing their IndyRef2 train has come off the rails, so they're ranting about UK GE democracy whilst ignoring the democracy deficit in Scotland not having a second chamber to the point where Supreme Court has to slap them down!

It's quite clear the wannabe authoritarian posters really haven't thought their posts through either.

Jesus. 🙈

If you asked all the people you know or people in shops etc , how much they know about the parties they voted for and why they voted , why would that be classed as rhetoric ?

Rhetoric = language intended to have a persuasive effect, but lacks meaningful content.

Asking people you know leads you to the Anecdotal Fallacy too. It's not evidence of anything.

Hence, you need a more robust data source of some credible kind.

Sweet Jesus....🙈

This 100%

More of a problem is not everyone voting. I forgot which country makes everyone 18+ vote, but I think this is a much better idea to get a true representation of our country.

Democracy is absolutely fine.
The issue is with how elections work in the UK.
First past the post disenfranchises the electorate.
Having grown up in a country with proportional representation, I had to have FPTP explained to me so many times before I realised it actually was as ridiculous and cynical as it sounds.
The UK needs electoral reform and the introduction of a truly democratic proportional representation system. Voter engagement would rise overnight.

In addition, we need to ensure the national curriculum enshrines statutory opportunities for learning about models of governance and how politics works at different levels in the UK, and for this to be given considerable resources and priority. Citizenship education essentially. There's never been greater urgency.

And as for the press, as a previous poster suggested, political bias in in print, online and televised media needs to be further highlighted and made visible at a glance.

Only if you put "none of the above" on the ballot and require 50% of the electorate to win. If no candidate gets over 50% you don't return a representative. That might focus some minds on compromises.

As we know from Northern Ireland, it's entirely possible to exist without the elected government.

(We'll come back to my suggestion for the second chamber ....)