To ask vendor to pay for full amount of damp costs

[madamdoodle]

My husband and I are about 11 weeks into purchasing our dream property - an 1800s cotswold stone cottage - which would also involve relocating to a different part of the SW.

The survey came up with a big red flags, mainly over the extent of the damp and suggested further, more thorough investigations which we’ve got booked in with a local specialist for early next month but the survey came up with £40k worth of red flags… a lot of which we’ve gone through and feel that’s it’s just the surveyor covering their backs so wanted to investigate electrics/plumbing further for a more realistic assessment.. and so far, so manageable.

however on going to visit the property to measure up I noticed for the first time, probably due to recent wet weather, that the ground floor of the house smelt strongly of mildew and was very humid to the point that the furniture was wet! When I pulled a - wet- armchair out to examine the wall behind I could put my finger through the panelling. There was black mould in the cupboards. Upstairs seems unaffected in any obvious way.

I have been digging around as much as I can to research this and ended up speaking to a lime specialist who has experience working with damp in old heritage houses and he told me (on the phone without looking at the issue) that I could expect to be paying in the realms of £40k.

The housing market in the area is slow as it’s rather rural and we were the only people to put in a bid. The vendor isn’t buying another property and so doesn’t need a specific figure but obviously wants to get the best price they can. To pay for a thorough damp survey with a specialist with knowledge in heritage buildings will be £1.2k and I’m hesitant to pay for that unless the vendor is willing to pay for the costs of remedial work needed to rectify the (significant) issues.

AIBU to ask the vendor to agree to absorb the cost of the damp issues which could be anywhere in the region of 15-40k? With the interests rates as they are and to cover the other issues that need addressing - average for age of the property - there’s no way we can afford to pay for it ourselves and would be forced to back out.

if you’ve got this far, thanks for reading!!

No, it does not.

I think I'd consider pulling out, damp is a health hazard as well as really unpleasant and it could well be an ongoing issue.

A quick google shows a lot of 'heritage and listed damp specialists' recommending truly horrifying and expensive solutions.

Luckily I could live with the damp in my house for a few years, and the various expensive solutions everyone suggested until I felt confident enough to research and realised the issue.

LPOC is an absolute must if you are new to this type of property.

Is the vendor living in the property or is it vacant currently...

Old buildings like this need to be lived in or yes, the damp becomes an issue.

And there are myriad people out there with stupid suggestions based on zero knowledge of old building materials and styles (ie, rip out the floor and tank the whole property...) that will cost a fortune AND make matters much much worse.

Raise the issue - if the property is currently vacant and has been for some time, I suspect it probably isn't actuall as bad as it looks now - but be prepared to learn about this sort of thing and how its supposed to work, or I would suggest not buying such an old, traditionally built building... They are not for the faint hearted and do require some research and knowledge.

No! no! This would make the damp a 1000x worse. In fact, some knob might have tanked or concreted the floor years ago and that may be one source of your damp.

A stone 1800s cottage needs tile on Earth floors to breathe along with sufficient airflow through air bricks, chimney stacks and so on. And the interior and exterior stone also need to stay breathable…if the outside has been painted with waterproof paint that will cause damp to run down the inside of the walls.

Like I posted, most damp found in 1800s or older (medieval) stone cottages are often caused by people doing upgrades with modern techniques that mess up the way the house breathes to stay dry and warm inside.

It does need to breathe. It also will need constant heat and ventilation.
Flag floors laid on earth are usually warmer than those laid on concrete but covering them with carpet then makes them damp.
It can also take along time to dry a cottage out if the water has been coming in via leaking chimneys and guttering. You can just replaster over wet walls. They need a good 12 months without plaster really.

Can't imagine they would pay anything. They were probably hoping for buyers who would not notice or not have a survey. We sold our 1870s stone cottage last year, home report (in Scotland) said a damp and timber survey was recommended, which the buyers did. Costo to rememdy £8k. They told us, didn't specifically ask for money, but we didn't want to lose the sale as they had offered way over asking price, so we offered to knock £3k off the price as a contribution.

It isn't unreasonable to ask, but they might say no if the property was priced accordingly or if they just don't want to pay out that kind of money.
If they did say no, would you walk away from the purchase or would you look to compromise further? It is a good idea to have a plan before negotiations begin just so you know where you will draw a line.

Walk away

Sounds like a health hazard money pit!

@TestingTestingWonTooFree that's a pretty naive view! I would think they knew about damp that bad and tried to cover it up/ignore it and priced in accordance with this.

Never ever ever ever trust so called damp specialist or surveyors who say a house has "damp". Have a look on Heritage House for some actually sane guidance for your old house, before someone rips you off, doesn't solve the "damp", and permanently ruins the house.

If you absolutely the property I would check carefully for obvious damp causes, guttering, neighbours garden draining past the house etc.

An old cottage doesn't have to be damp, don't get a DPC whatever you do, lime render, lots of ventilation and heated through will help.

I would pay for the expert survey, and then use the results of that to negotiate. Once you have a better idea of the actual issue you are in a much stronger position.

If 1800s stone cottages are your dream property, then you are always going to be taking on problems unless you can afford one that’s already “done”. You’re going to need to learn about all the things in this thread like how to keep them warm and dry. You’re going to need to do full surveys and such. So I wouldn’t just walk away right now.

I'd be reconsidering this one

If it’s that bad, it probably has been left and will be a money pit.

Buying an old house is like buying a vintage car. You do it because you want it to be a hobby, because you’re interested in restoration and heritage. It’s an old’un and will need your constant attentive attention. If this is your aspiration, go for it. Otherwise think logically.

You could also go back right now with a £40k reduced offer on basis on surveys you’ve already had done…

Damp is almost invariably because previous owners have used modern materials that don't breathe and there is insufficient ventilation... or you've got a water leak.

Be very careful buying an old property unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time learning about them and spending money on them.

If you are up for this then speak to the lovely people at the SPAB helpline, join the Listed Property Owners Club and get one of them to recommend someone properly qualified to look at the issue.

Previous owners of my house (pre-1500) spent loads of money putting in a damp proof course that wasn't needed. We have almost no damp now - due to huge amounts of ventilation and removing as much modern unbreathable paint/mortar/insulation as possible and replacing with lime and breathable alternatives. I could probably eliminate it if I paid a fortune to remove the concrete some idiot decided to put down on half the cellar floor.

A DPC in a pre 1500 house 😮😮😮😭😭😭

It's really going to depend on the cause.

My hone was built in 1802 and had some damp issues when we moved in. The dining hall had to be tanked and a damp proof membrane put under the flagstone floor. It cost a lot less than I anticipated.

It does depend on the cause of the damp though. We walked away from one where the (idiot) vendor had coated the house in a plastic paint. As the house could no longer breath it had significant problems. That would have cost a lot more to fix.

Could you ask them to pay/split the cost of the specialist survey? Since it's something presumably any potential buyer would want if you did pull out. I wouldn't assume £40k would cover it and wouldn't go into this without a full picture of the issues.

Things being wet isn’t really the issue, it’s what the wet does to the things.

when you say your finger went through the panelling, what do you mean? Ground floor? Outside wall?

it is normally fixable, or manageable, but if they’ve added a DPC (look for rows of drill holes on external walls, low down) and/or covered the inside or outside in renders or plastics, then it’ll be a sod to sort. If it’s just a drain pipe or a couple of air bricks then you’ll be laughing. But it’s hard to know which it is (or which combination, or which other thing…) before you buy and live in it.

you can try ask for 40k off. But have in mind what compromise you’d accept….. and be aware that as a pp said you’re almost certainly going to need more than 40k if the wet has affected significant amounts of things….

Thanks for all the considered responses, it’s been helpful to get your perspectives.

I agree that this house will be a lifetimes project and I am happy to be a responsible and loving custodian of this home and the upkeep it requires for as long as we may have it. I am a homemaker and my husband and I have a lot of passion for making places special although this project has become quite daunting if I’m being honest. We are not low earners but this will be a very big commitment.

I have been in touch with a specialist with expertise in old/heritage homes of this nature and - without seeing it, granted, and just hearing my description of the damp - he guesstimated £40k worth of work to take out all the old plaster/damp courses and replace with breathable materials/lime render. This work was on top of all the expected issues with a house of this age and was not mentioned by EA or vendor and there are other houses in the area that are in far better condition for the same price bracket.

This may well be woefully naive of me but I’d feel a bit annoyed if the house price was fixed on the consideration of the works needed but then not declared. The EA agreed that the house’s damp was quite shocking whilst we made these discoveries.

I guess it’s quite simple tho, either she agrees to take on the cost of the remedial works for the damp or we walk… nothing else that can be done!

thanks again. Wishing you all a pleasant BH

I’d pull out without a second thought.