To think that shoplifting should be taken seriously by the police and public?

[ScarySpinster]

I used to work in retail. The police would rarely come out for a shoplifter, even if it was £1000s of pounds.

My local village shop may have to close because of teenagers regularly shoplifting. It's just not profitable for them to stay open with the losses they have.

Looking at the bigger picture, shoplifting raids are taking place regularly in London, and all the big cities, with the people involved rarely being prosecuted.

I think that we need to take this crime much more seriously. I don't want to live in a world where there are no repercussions for bad behavior. Because where will this stop? Will burgarly and mugging start to become okay next?

I used to work in retail
Let’s be honest at best you’d have some shitty cctv image of someone with a hood and a mask they’ll be off before police arrive
The evidence they’ll have to go off will be practically none existent

staff quite shouldn’t tackle them it’s not being dramatic to say they are at risk of being stabbed or seriously assaulted

I think for some retailers will be going down the click and collect route

1 shoplifting crime would take hours and hours to investigate then court time then what punishment could you give them

I think retailers are going to have to change the way we shop back to the old days were everything was out of public reach and assistant got it which is now click and collect

Look people !
Exactly what should happen to these thieves?
Because despite hours of police work, witness statements, checking video, arresting etc -what should happen - no one will get jail, maybe some community work - ooh yes, that’ll sort it -not.
Thieves will either disappear/ have some sob story/ plead mental I’ll health etc etc
Were an enlightened western country where the human rights apply to baddies as well as goodies.
We could go back to shops having counters where the assistant hands you what you want and takes your money. And actual doors you have to open to get in and out.

Totally agree, OP. Shoplifting is not a victimless crime. It pushes up prices for everyone, it drives shops to do things like putting items in cases or behind counters, it creates an unsafe atmosphere when observed and makes the shop feel like a threatening environment.

people's lives and livelihoods, and instead do stupid stuff around hurty feelz on the internet.

Our MPs make the laws. And I imagine the home office directs what needs prioritised.
And the put upon minority groups led on forcing a stop on giving them hurtzy feels - if more people had contacted their MPs to criticise the phobic comments legislation but everyone did nothing. Now it’s here and the law is what it is. I can’t imagine anyone joining the police expected to be spending their time on hurtzy comments.

I own a retail business which has been going some 30 years. Back in the day you could call the police and they would come out for shoplifting incidents. In my business we have mainly teenagers stealing. It's not because of the economy; there is no valid excuse for it. Previously, there would be a couple of PCSO's or officers walking around the city centre. They would attend a theft and then frighten the life out of the teen by writing their details in a notebook and saying they would be prosecuted if they ever stole again. It took the police minimal time and was a great deterrent. Now everyone knows you can go ahead and steal with no consequences so unsurprisingly shoplifting is rife. I don't understand how the police can't see it is not a waste of time to get out there on the streets deterring people and hence stopping all of those kids from going on to commit more and more crimes.

My other comment is that in my experience different forces are vastly different and one I have had interactions with is corrupt and will falsify the facts to suit themselves. They refuse to issue crime numbers and I have also actually identified shoplifters by name and had clear footage of the crime and they have refused to do anything at all about it. In another area the police would engage with us small businesses and try to help. So it varies by area.

1 shoplifting crime would take hours and hours to investigate then court time then what punishment could you give them

This is such a defeatist attitude. As a PP said, bicycle theft is rife. There are examples of bike owners seeing their own bikes on sale on Facebook, meaning they have the name and address of the thief. And the police still won't do anything. There are examples of the same people raiding the same shops at the same time every day and the police still don't do anything.

I don't blame any small retailer for just shutting up shop in the face of such lack of support.

Actually, the College of Policing, a private organisation, drew up the guidelines on responding to and recording non-crime hate incidents, which have taken up so much police time, and which is now being pushed back against. They over-reached, a lot.

Meanwhile

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/27/tory-councillor-arrested-racial-hate-crime-anthony-stevens/

I'm more concerned that people can barely afford to live.
I'm doing OK myself right now, i have absolutely no need to steal, but if I saw some kid shoplifting in these times I'd completely ignore it. Sorry not sorry.

heir details in a notebook and saying they would be prosecuted if they ever stole again. It took the police minimal time and was a great deterrent.

But surely if they are under age they’re not going to be prosecuted and they know it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-66585713

@Lonicerax Some of them know it. But a lot of them don't. They are thick. That's why they are out stealing. And they don't like being interviewed by the police or the threat of their parents being informed (a lot of the parents actually do care from my experience when the police did used to call them).
In my opinion, having a society where people are going around openly committing crimes without any sanction whatsoever is harmful to every single member of that society. It's openly demonstrating that crime does pay and that there is no point being a good person as the criminals come out better off. I believe this lackadaisical attitude is partly responsible for the toxic environment we all have to live in nowadays.

How do you know it's teens?
I was recently offered 'half price' random goods from a rucksack by a 40+ man behind a mall that I'm guessing he must have just shoplifted - I think the COL crisis is hitting families hard- encouraging parents to shop lift for themselves and also to sell items on to families who can't afford to pay full price. I also wonder if he was an asylum seeker desperate and not able to make ends meet as can't work.

I do think the general public care.

I also think the police do care, but resources are so limited these days that they have to prioritise the more serious crime e.g. serious assault.

I've probably mentioned this before on mumsnet, but people don't realise just how stretched they are. To give an example, my dad is a retired police officer who worked in our medium sized town.
In the late 80s/early to mid 90s, he was at divisional HQ and the shift paraded on with 18 officers. On top of that, there were smaller, sub stations around the town - 3 that I can think of. They used to parade on with 4 per station. So, on a shift, you had 30 officers to go out and about.
Now, substations have closed and HQ parade on with 9 officers. 9, for the whole town!! It's madness!

Back to shoplifting though, some shops seem not to care. I once witnessed a man going round a co op store, filling two carrier bags with goods. Walked out without paying. Several staff saw him but not one batted an eyelid!
I also saw, in the cafe of a large city centre hospital, a man, in full view, take a bottle of juice, cake and bag of crisps and breeze out, past the security guard, without a care in the world. I actually pointed out to the security guard and the lady behind the counter that he had stolen. Their response- 'oh people do it all the time', like it was totally normal.

In a nutshell, people should care, some do. It's obviously wrong to shop lift, but there aren't the resources to go chasing every shoplifter.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum Because I have a retail business and have worked in retail for 30 years? I am talking about my business if you look at my previous post. I am not talking about stealing to eat. The people who steal on my premises are stealing luxury non-essentials just because they want them. And yes they are mainly teens and there is no deterrent whatsoever. This is setting kids off to a bad start in life; they need to be shown that criminality is wrong.

@PumpkinPie2016 Some employees in shops may not care. It's not their business. Believe me the owners of small to medium businesses care very much as they have paid for every item that is stolen. But they also know that there is nothing they can do. The police won't come.
So if you just shrug and say there aren't the resources to do anything about it I guess you are saying it may as well be legal. Just go through life taking whatever you want. It's sad this country has come to this attitude; it certainly isn't the attitude everywhere.

Do they bite shoplifters? If not, they're of no use.

You realise that most shoplifters aren't stealing bread and milk because they're on the bones of their arse?

Oh I’m so sorry it’s your business being damaged by this :-(

do you have cctv? Can you put photos of them on the door as ‘banned customers’ for all in the village to see? A rule about how many school kids can come into shop at once? Or school kids need to show you their ID (eg bus pass) before they start browsing? Can you report them to the school if they are in uniform? Remind all of them they are on cctv as they come in? Not to victim blame but don’t want you losing your business without a good fight and these things might scare then off?

I don't believe that a Labour government will bring any improvement. The current rot set in long before the present rabble. David Blunkett was a reasonable Home Secretary, but we haven't had a properly tough one since Michael Howard. Otherwise they've all seemed keen to make life easier for criminals - particularly Theresa May.

manontroppo
Mental health calls should not be the Police’s problem to deal with until a crime is in progress.

But who is going to deal with it? A suicidal person who is stood on a bridge threatening to jump?

And then, not only do you need a cop to talk/negotiate with them. You need one cop at each end of the bridge to stop people walking past, and a load of cops to close the road and feeder roads underneath. And it could take hours to sort out.

Ditto with missing from homes.

And these incidents are happening every shift now. We always have 4-5 missing from homes all the time. As soon as you find them, they go again.

So the non-urgent incidents tend to drop down the queue to be dealt with as and when. So this will include your shop thefts, hurt feeling jobs etc etc

Even if you had a set aside unit to deal with retail theft - after a few thefts, the unit will be tied up with those jobs to deal with (arrest, statements, CCTV reviews, interviews, CPS, case files) so who will be able to attend the next shop theft that comes in?

RhymesWithOrange
Crimes are never 'too tricky' to deal with - you either have the evidence there or you don't. Rapes & sexual assaults are difficult to prove at the best of times as they often come down to one word against another and you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. From our force's point of view, every rape is taken seriously, but consider the cops now tied up with rape scenes, cell watches and victim management off the back of each rape report. So there is another 5 or so cops written off that day who can't go to the shop thefts.

Another thing to consider is that criminals such as burglars are much more forensically aware now. They know how the system works (or their solicitor does) and can always give cast tight alibis all the time.

Part of the problem is that you cannot use physical force on anyone without being criminalised yourself. How is anyone supposed to do anything about anything. A man walked through and out of the self service area when I was checking stuff out the other day, with a couple of carrier bags full. So one thing the supermarket could do is stop self checkout and make it harder to leave the shop.

@Felix125 but if the police don't even attend a scene of shoplifting or housebreaking then how do they know if they have the evidence?

And in cases where stolen goods like bicycles are being offered back to the owner on Facebook still the police won't do anything.

Of course crime takes police resources to handle, it now seems though that criminals can safely bet on the police to be too busy to investigate their crime. You see it all the time, people being advised to not even call the police because they won't bother.

About 20 years ago I was burgled, they actually took nothing because my house alarm scared them away. But I had officers, forensics etc. dusting for fingerprints. Now if someone is burgled they get a crime number for their insurance claim over the phone.

In the meantime there are dozens and dozens of women (and men) who are having their perfectly legal speech investigated by forces all over the country. I can't help but think that has to do with both being captured by Stonewall and it's easier to tackle a middle aged woman in front of her children rather than an actual criminal.

The police shouldn’t be dealing with the mental health scenarios that @Felix125 is describing. And they certainly shouldn’t be dealing with them just because no one else will.

There is a place for police involvement in missing vulnerable people (children and so on) but for adults who “just” have mental health problems? Not the police’s role.

@manontroppo as I understand it, where there is a threat to life the police are bound to attend. They are being used as an overflow from emergency health services.

A few years ago the police in my area told the health services they would no longer routinely lock up mentally ill people in cells (to keep them safe from harm) on the weekends when there were no other services to help them. This often included children. It was shocking.