Page 14 | Karen advert

IncognitoMam · 2023-08-26T06:29:14+00:00

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit? I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 13:06

I admitted, I can't keep up with the evolution and the where (US/ UK) and why - nor do I believe it is necessary for my everyday understanding. As a decent human being, I understood the racism part (you would have to have lived under a rock not to have heard of the term karen or karens and the racism it purports to describe). And left the rest of them to it as I exited left!

EarthSight · 26/08/2023 13:06

WolfFoxHare · 26/08/2023 12:48

Nice to see you’re outting yourself as an agist misogynist there @Lndnmummy . So basically what, protest against being labelled a Karen and you’re a Karen, or accept it without protest and you’re a Karen? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t?

You might think this is a winning argument but actually you’re just revealing your own biases and prejudices. Maybe educate yourself, or at least take a good long look in the mirror.

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That's one of the signs that this truly is a misogynist phenomenon

It's a catch-all terms whereby -

If a woman protests at being called Karen, she is then labelled 'a Karen' for doing so.

If a woman who is actually called a Karen feels sad about her name being used as an insult, and voices frustration over discrimination she has faced because of her first name, then she is also typically a Karen and should check her privilege. She needs to learn from this lesson and live with the discomfort of her first name to be in some kind of solidarity with people of colour who have faced racism (I've read an article that promoted these ideas a while ago).

If a woman called Karen actually changes her first name because of all of this, then she is also a Karen as she has the privilege of doing so.

If a woman called Karen doesn't care what people think, then she is also typically a Karen has Karens apparently insensitive and don't care about the opinions of others. By being nonchalant about the whole thing, she is displaying her privilege.

And btw @Lndnmummy @AnObserverInThisDarkWorld I've been called Karen for calling out sexually questionable comments towards a young woman in a Facebook group. It's is applied like this.

Rest assured that this term will also come for you, and if you don't see that, then you are quite frankly dim.

Crossinsomekindaline · 26/08/2023 13:07

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wayyour · 26/08/2023 13:08

Brilliant post @EarthSight

I'm in absolute agreement

ImNotWorthy · 26/08/2023 13:09

I was well aware that the quote I referenced from @ChillysWaterBottle was about the origin of the slur, but isn't it a fact that it originates from the name "Karen"?

All I was saying that women born in the last century and given the then popular name Karen by their parents, can hardly be accused of misappropriation of a term which arose in the noughties in the context of racism against black people in the USA.

CallieJones · 26/08/2023 13:10

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 13:06

I admitted, I can't keep up with the evolution and the where (US/ UK) and why - nor do I believe it is necessary for my everyday understanding. As a decent human being, I understood the racism part (you would have to have lived under a rock not to have heard of the term karen or karens and the racism it purports to describe). And left the rest of them to it as I exited left!

Of course you can keep up with it. You'd have to have been living under a rock to have not seen Karen used as an ageist, misogynistic slur designed to silence women.

CantFindTheBeat · 26/08/2023 13:12

DeeCee77 · 26/08/2023 09:13

The Karen = a racist white american woman who uses her white privilege to inflict terror upon a non white person.

That's it.

Someone called Karen from Croydon has got nothing to do with "The Karen". Tell your poor, unfortunate friends (sarcasm) to stop misappropriating a term that historically refers to a very dangerous entity to non white people in america.

It's not anyone's friend appropriating the term.

It's (typically) men using it as a term to shut women (of any colour) down when they have any form of valid-yet-opposing perspective.

SomeCatFromJapan · 26/08/2023 13:12

I admitted, I can't keep up with the evolution and the where (US/ UK) and why - nor do I believe it is necessary for my everyday understanding. As a decent human being, I understood the racism part (you would have to have lived under a rock not to have heard of the term karen or karens and the racism it purports to describe). And left the rest of them to it as I exited left!

As a decent human being, why would you dismiss the barrage of sexism and ageism against women? Women are TELLING you that this is a term now used to silence them. Why don't you believe them?

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 13:14

CallieJones · 26/08/2023 13:10

Of course you can keep up with it. You'd have to have been living under a rock to have not seen Karen used as an ageist, misogynistic slur designed to silence women.

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Nope! Goes back under the rock. Admittedly, I am not on FB to see these inappropriate behaviours or in areas where I could encounter it. I am reading this here for the first time as I do like MN. And have condemned it and will continue to condemn it.

Karen (about racism in US) was discussed in the UK media which I follow.

Saschka · 26/08/2023 13:16

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 13:06

I admitted, I can't keep up with the evolution and the where (US/ UK) and why - nor do I believe it is necessary for my everyday understanding. As a decent human being, I understood the racism part (you would have to have lived under a rock not to have heard of the term karen or karens and the racism it purports to describe). And left the rest of them to it as I exited left!

You just need to read the OP. I don’t think that is too much to ask, before you wade in here accusing us of being apologists for racism .

Iwasafool · 26/08/2023 13:17

DeeCee77 · 26/08/2023 08:58

My heart really bleeds for anyone misappropriating a term given to deadly white women in the US.

Heres more Karens walking behind a 15 year old black girl in protest at her being able to go to a newly integrated school along with their white children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Eckford

"Eckford only spent one year at Little Rock Central High where she and the other black students were tormented throughout. In the years since, she has struggled through life, and twice attempted suicide. She was subsequently diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder."

Surely you must think the use of Karen as an insult is inappropriate in this advert as it has nothing to do with white middleaged women and racism.

HRTQueen · 26/08/2023 13:18

why does it get so many people upset , apart from those called Karen

would it really shut a women down when she is expressing her opinion not any women I know

I’ve heard it used to shut a women down (it’s been igbired) and I have heard it used to call out underhand racism

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 13:19

SomeCatFromJapan · 26/08/2023 13:12

I admitted, I can't keep up with the evolution and the where (US/ UK) and why - nor do I believe it is necessary for my everyday understanding. As a decent human being, I understood the racism part (you would have to have lived under a rock not to have heard of the term karen or karens and the racism it purports to describe). And left the rest of them to it as I exited left!

As a decent human being, why would you dismiss the barrage of sexism and ageism against women? Women are TELLING you that this is a term now used to silence them. Why don't you believe them?

Don't misquote me. And my priority was to racism which was being blatantly denied by some on this thread as that's how I understood the term. deal with it.

I now see, those who want to defend whites (they may be white or otherwise) have their own priority. However, I will always point out that was a latter addition. That doesn't mean I condone it. Of course I condemn it have done so countless times on this thread.

Racism apologist on MN (this thread) don't even have the decency to acknowledge it. Focus on your karen and how it makes you feel and don't focus on me. I am just airing my opinion on the subject matter, not attacking individual posters.

Spywoman · 26/08/2023 13:22

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Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 26/08/2023 13:22

All I was saying that women born in the last century and given the then popular name Karen by their parents, can hardly be accused of misappropriation of a term which arose in the noughties in the context of racism against black people in the USA.

But who on earth is accusing people called Karen of misappropriation of the term?! You think someone called Karen would enjoy being called 'a Karen'? (Head explodes.)

RudsyFarmer · 26/08/2023 13:22

I am sometimes astonished at how rude people are to retail staff and often those people are women of a certain age, so I can certainly see how that term came about.

Equally I’m thoroughly frustrated at the term ‘white women’s tears’ being used to shut down any upset a light skinned woman may feel. It’s so scornful and divisive.

Spywoman · 26/08/2023 13:26

RudsyFarmer · 26/08/2023 13:22

I am sometimes astonished at how rude people are to retail staff and often those people are women of a certain age, so I can certainly see how that term came about.

Equally I’m thoroughly frustrated at the term ‘white women’s tears’ being used to shut down any upset a light skinned woman may feel. It’s so scornful and divisive.

I've also seen men of a certain age be extremely rude. Or young people.

We certainly shouldn't be lumping all people of a certain group together.

Also, the point is that the term is used even when a woman is just being assertive, not rude, in a way that wouldn't happen if she was a man behaving in exactly the same way.

Iwasafool · 26/08/2023 13:27

PurpleWisteria1 · 26/08/2023 12:43

Please don’t tell me you are actually defending this shite.
In the UK this is just used to put down any woman who speaks up for herself.
Awful for any called Karen.
Imagine for one second that tomorrow your name was commonly used for someone who was a complete arsehole and now whenever a new person hears your name for the first time they snigger.
Yeah- fun times.

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Words can have different meanings in the US and UK. I think panties and pants are a good example. In the UK pants are underwear, panties are a bit cringe. In the US pants are trousers and panties are underwear. Doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong they are just used differently. Isn't Karen the same?

I've never actually heard anyone use Karen as an insult so maybe I'm wrong.

Bettelucksecondtimearoundimherewaitingforu · 26/08/2023 13:28

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DerekFaker · 26/08/2023 13:29

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It's used the same way in the US too now. Usually by young, white people.

ImNotWorthy · 26/08/2023 13:30

I just had an awful thought.

I had my DC in the late 80s, so they are now in their 30s. Suppose I had named one of my DDs "Karen"? I'd be feeling insulted (on two levels) when I heard the slur, as I am now.

However, I'd also be feeling emotional pain that our careful choice to give DD her grandmother's name could now be a source of embarrassment, and worse, to DD.

All names go out of fashion. Some of them come back into fashion again. I doubt many people choose the name Karen anymore, anyway, because it sounds kind of middle-aged (which is probably why it has caught on with some ageist, sexist young people).

I used to have an Uncle Dick. I used to have a friend called Dick. It used to be a standard replacement for Richard, as in Dick Whittington. Does anyone know anyone still know anyone who goes by the name of Dick? I only mention this because I've been trying to think of parallel uses with male names. Dick and Wally are all I've come up with so far

WolfFoxHare · 26/08/2023 13:31

HRTQueen · 26/08/2023 13:18

why does it get so many people upset , apart from those called Karen

would it really shut a women down when she is expressing her opinion not any women I know

I’ve heard it used to shut a women down (it’s been igbired) and I have heard it used to call out underhand racism

So you think it’s fine to insult women in an attempt to get them to shut up? Because they can ignore it and carry on speaking?

Iwasafool · 26/08/2023 13:31

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If the UK media have discussed how Karen is used in the US doesn't that sort of mean that it isn't used that way in the UK. I mean the UK media haven't felt the need to explain how woman/child/book/chair is used in the US because they're used the same way here.

Saschka · 26/08/2023 13:34

@ImNotWorthy Nigel, Kevin, Darren all pretty much unusable I would have said! Eg “he’s a bit of a Nigel” or “look at that Kev over there”. Used to mock rather than call out genuinely bad behaviour though.

Iwasafool · 26/08/2023 13:34

ImNotWorthy · 26/08/2023 13:30

I just had an awful thought.

I had my DC in the late 80s, so they are now in their 30s. Suppose I had named one of my DDs "Karen"? I'd be feeling insulted (on two levels) when I heard the slur, as I am now.

However, I'd also be feeling emotional pain that our careful choice to give DD her grandmother's name could now be a source of embarrassment, and worse, to DD.

All names go out of fashion. Some of them come back into fashion again. I doubt many people choose the name Karen anymore, anyway, because it sounds kind of middle-aged (which is probably why it has caught on with some ageist, sexist young people).

I used to have an Uncle Dick. I used to have a friend called Dick. It used to be a standard replacement for Richard, as in Dick Whittington. Does anyone know anyone still know anyone who goes by the name of Dick? I only mention this because I've been trying to think of parallel uses with male names. Dick and Wally are all I've come up with so far

We nearly called our son Richard after a much loved uncle but the fact that he'd be called Dick put us off. Willy is another one. I have a female name, well unisex really, that is used as an insult but doesn't seem to be used much now. I hated it as a child as people would say it and laugh.