U.K. first womb transplant

[VestaTilley]

The BBC has reported today that the first womb transplant has taken place in a hospital in England. A 40 year old woman donated her womb to her sister, hopefully enabling her to have children.

AIBU to be concerned about a potential dystopian future where women’s reproductive organs are harvested like car parts?

Journalists are treating this like it’s a positive, with few questions being asked about how the donor is recovering, how the foetus (if the recipient does conceive) will fare if the woman has to continue taking immuno suppressive drugs? Whether there is increased miscarriage risk?

Transplants are supposed to be life saving, not about wish fulfilment. Apparently 10 brain dead women are being lined up for future donation!

To me this all seems part of a bigger picture of surrogacy, synthetic embryo creation (reported earlier this year) and a drive to disassociate women from reproduction and the biology of our sex.

Am I alone in being bothered by this? I wish journalists would look more at the bigger societal picture.

Link here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66514270

There is absolutely nothing there to suggest a problem - live donors have clearly consented and the 10 deceased will be organ donors and the families will have agreed also. Plus it’s not like this is all happening imminently and someone has gone out hunting for 10 brain dead women. As with any organ donation you’ll need a recipient first, who will go through testing and counselling, and then be on a waiting list should a donor come up. There is an implication on this thread that some people seem to think these 10 dead women are bodies that have been acquired in some nefarious manner rather than the lengthy and careful process it no doubt will be.

This is sort of Womb Transplants - No Debate, isn't it? We've been here before with the Gender Recognition Act to enable a few sweet, muddled gender dysphorics to marry and live their lives as the opposite sex.

Don't worry, Ladies, nothing unusual going on here, just doctors exploiting the brain-dead for bits, perfectly normal. Trust me, I'm a doctor, and anyway it's not going to be happening next week. Women, Know Your Place – and it's not to be worrying about things you don't really understand.

I had this response from the organ donation people:

“Womb transplantation is not part of the opt out system for donations (ie. you have to opt in and meet strict criteria). All adults in the UK are now considered to have agreed to be an organ and tissue donor when they die unless they have recorded a decision not to donate or are in one of the excluded groups. This is commonly referred to as an ‘opt out’ system. Womb transplantation is not part of this system.”

“Therefore unless you explicitly arrange with your family for womb/uterus donation to go ahead it absolutely will not be considered.”

Why? This is precisely what happens for less high stakes purposes, such as sex. Sec trafficked women and girls are a huge problem. And since we already know the lengths men will go to in order to skip U.K. surrogacy laws and buy women’s bodies elsewhere, not to mention the huge costs they’re willing to pay to make sure the child is biologically theirs, this is a huge concern.

Is your life so comfortably removed from women in poverty in other countries that you think none of this is happening?

A family member has had a kidney transplant and has to take large amounts of immunosuppressive drugs every day. The side effects are really quite severe. Goodness knows what the effect would be on a fetus. When you consider that pregnant women are exhorted to avoid medication, alcohol, certain foods, I find it hard to believe that it is going to be ok to take all the necessary drugs all through pregnancy. What happens if organ rejection starts happening during the pregnancy?

It took me 17 years to conceive DD, but I still stand by my opinion.

And I would still stand by it if I hadn't been able to have DC.

"Again, it’s simply stupid to think this will lead to women being snatched off the streets and their wombs ripped out."

You mean like what happens to children and vulnerable adults in parts of India, for example, for their kidneys?

Just awful. Such a waste or time and resources. I know it was done privately but surely the team could've been put to better use with actual life saving ops.

A uterus is not a vital organ. I know plenty of people who have had fertility problems and I doubt any would consider this.

This would absolutely infuriate me if I was waiting for an operation.

Agree with you, OP.

While the organ retrieval was carried out by a male surgeon the team that implanted the womb was led by a woman "Transplant surgeon Isabel Quiroga, who led the team implanting the womb, said the recipient was delighted:"

"And there's a level of emotional manipulation, even if it's not deliberate between a living transplant like these sisters which I don't think is ethical."

Do you feel the same way about living donors for other organs eg kidneys?

I would be happy to donate my womb and uterus once I’m dead along with any other organ that is of use to someone still living (yes caveat not to a man, that is ridiculous and I would be totally against that) and I don’t think I’m the only one on here who would do that.

How is that exploitation?

Exactly, It's hardly a back street procedure is it?

If you saw the woman being interviewed this morning who is hoping to receive a womb transplant you may change your mind. She had womb cancer in her early twenties, has her own embryos to use. I hope she gets the chance to carry her own child and feel the joy that brings.

I have just opted out of organ donation. It was really easy and I am sure I can opt back in at some point. I know the pp said that womb donation is separate but maybe for now. Governments have a habit of changing laws, I find.

They don't have "10 brain dead women lined up" - the article says that they have been authorised to carry out 15 womb transplants - 10 from brain dead donors, nowhere does it say that these donors are available immediately, much less "lined up".

Babies are a gift, not a commodity and nobody has a right to have one.

I agree. Reproducing is not a basic human right. I would argue that having the freedom to do so without extra intervention might be though.

Absolutely horrifying tbh.

Yanbu. I've now opted out of the donor list because of this.

I'd still happily receive a kidney or whatever.

Yea, I'm a hypocrit.

Maybe I didn't explain it very well. But to me, there's a difference between a sibling needing a kidney and dying otherwise, and seeing them miserable when I have a totally healthy uterus but don't want kids, and seeing my sister suffer through IVF and desperately wanting children. This isn't the case, but the scenario I'm imagining.

The latter would make me feel very selfish and yes, I would probably feel pressured into it if she brought up the news articles and how exciting it was for her.

So you do have children and presumably have/had a womb. You can't possibly comment on how you would feel if you didn't have your own DC.

Do you feel the same way about living donors for other organs eg kidneys?

There is known to be a fair amount of manipulation in play at times which is why there is supposed to be a lot of psychological support.

Jarlath Regan has an entire routine around donating a kidney to his brother.

I don’t particularly care if it kills a load of fetishistic Men if they try it with Male bodies, it won’t work and the ethics governing human embryology experiments are so strong that they could never put a human embryo into a Man, not legally anyway.

I doubt very much that organs can be taken from those in a persistent vegetative state (that aren’t about to die).

I mean... are hearts and lungs currently harvested like car parts? No? Then why would this be?

Yep. Let’s hope that not too many people take this kind of ridiculous action, there’s already a shortage of organs for transplant.