Page 11 | U.K. first womb transplant

VestaTilley · 2023-08-23T09:29:57+00:00

The BBC has reported today that the first womb transplant has taken place in a hospital in England. A 40 year old woman donated her womb to her sister, hopefully enabling her to have children. AIBU to be concerned about a potential dystopian future where women’s reproductive organs are harvested like car parts? Journalists are treating this like it’s a positive, with few questions being asked about how the donor is recovering, how the foetus (if the recipient does conceive) will fare if the woman has to continue taking immuno suppressive drugs? Whether there is increased miscarriage risk? Transplants are supposed to be life saving, not about wish fulfilment. Apparently 10 brain dead women are being lined up for future donation! To me this all seems part of a bigger picture of surrogacy, synthetic embryo creation (reported earlier this year) and a drive to disassociate women from reproduction and the biology of our sex. Am I alone in being bothered by this? I wish journalists would look more at the bigger societal picture. Link here: [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66514270 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66514270]]

Tacocatgoatcheesepizza · 23/08/2023 12:51

@Megifer so you’ll be glad that not everyone is just removing themselves from the register then? I have never understood the mindset of those that will take an organ but not give. The number of requests for wombs to transplant is going to be absolutely tiny. The need for other organs is huge.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 23/08/2023 12:52

Tacocatgoatcheesepizza · 23/08/2023 12:36

I am honestly so depressed at how many people on here appear to have had the ultimate knee jerk reaction and removed themselves completely from the organ donor list.

So you won’t be accepting one either, should you unfortunately need it for some reason then? And the people who might have been saved by your heart/lungs/kidney/liver etc well bollocks to them anyway because at least now your womb definitely won’t be transplanted into a man!

Don't criticise people for making this choice, its bodily autonomy and its not anyone else's right to take parts of me. Its either a gift I chose or I don't. My body parts don't belong to a system. Nobody is owed them.

NeedToChangeName · 23/08/2023 12:52

NM12345 · 23/08/2023 11:49

I have to wait 2 weeks to see a GP, are you seriously suggesting the NHS will offer this anytime soon? You can't even get cancer treatment in some parts of the country!

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@NM12345 I really hope the NHS doesn't offer this at all

I was trying (probably not very well) to point out that, although on this occasion, the surgery was not carried out on the NHS, there's no guarantee that it wouldn't be proposed in future

Megifer · 23/08/2023 12:55

Tacocatgoatcheesepizza · 23/08/2023 12:51

@Megifer so you’ll be glad that not everyone is just removing themselves from the register then? I have never understood the mindset of those that will take an organ but not give. The number of requests for wombs to transplant is going to be absolutely tiny. The need for other organs is huge.

Yea I guess I'll be very glad if im ever in that position.

Once they update the opt out list to include female reproductive organs ill be back on it straight away.

Knickerbockerglories · 23/08/2023 12:55

LateSummerLobelia · 23/08/2023 12:47

Yes this is a good point. I will discuss with DH.

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Thank you, I know it is an emotive subject and many people don’t want to talk about it but it is such an important conversation to have with your family or next of kin, whichever way you decide. X

SquishyGloopyBum · 23/08/2023 12:55

I have to say I was disappointed with BBC coverage of this when I watched the breakfast news. It was very biased and portrayed positively.

Not everyone agrees (as seen on here) that it is a bad/worrying thing but the ethical debate needs to be had and the BBC shouldn't be so one sided about it.

readbooksdrinktea · 23/08/2023 12:56

Iwantcakeeveryday · 23/08/2023 12:52

Don't criticise people for making this choice, its bodily autonomy and its not anyone else's right to take parts of me. Its either a gift I chose or I don't. My body parts don't belong to a system. Nobody is owed them.

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So much this.

Chersfrozenface · 23/08/2023 12:56

I suggest everyone who is concerned about people removing themselves from the organ donation register in each country of the UK lobbies the relevant authorities to ensure the ability to opt out of donating any part of the reproductive system, specifically and unalterably.

Taketurn · 23/08/2023 12:57

porridgecake · 23/08/2023 12:19

"Again, it’s simply stupid to think this will lead to women being snatched off the streets and their wombs ripped out."

You mean like what happens to children and vulnerable adults in parts of India, for example, for their kidneys?

That poster is very naive.

Goes back to my statement about some Brits. They live in a bubble.
"Not happening here so I don't care" attitude.

TheWayoftheLeaf · 23/08/2023 12:57

@CrazyFrogDingDing a transplant of a womb into a woman is very different from a man.

men's bodies do not have the hormones required to support a womb, cause periods or sustain a pregnancy.
a man's pelvis cannot shift, flex or change shape to make room for a pregnancy.
a man's body doesn't have the innate processes to grow a placenta, to leech vitamins from the bones/blood for a fetus. It cannot double its blood supply.
a male neo-vagina doesn't have a cervix or the ability to dilate for birth.

Therefore a womb being placed in a a woman with every structure in place for pregnancy is very very far away from a male body being able to carry a pregnancy with a transplanted uterus. It just won't happen.

RethinkingLife · 23/08/2023 12:58

I was trying (probably not very well) to point out that, although on this occasion, the surgery was not carried out on the NHS, there's no guarantee that it wouldn't be proposed in future

The surgeon leading this is leading clinical trials in this area.

However,
The current system for organ donation in England does not cover rare or novel transplants such as limb, face or uterus donation. This kind of transplant is not routine and would require specific agreement from your family.

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/consent/

Consent

This page outlines how consent for organ donation is established in England. We answer key questions such as: How is consent established for children? | Is carrying an organ donor card a form of consent? | What if my family object to my organ donation...

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/consent

Knickerbockerglories · 23/08/2023 12:59

Chersfrozenface · 23/08/2023 12:56

I suggest everyone who is concerned about people removing themselves from the organ donation register in each country of the UK lobbies the relevant authorities to ensure the ability to opt out of donating any part of the reproductive system, specifically and unalterably.

Can’t you do that by just selecting what you are willing to donate? When I did it there were tick boxes for heart, lungs etc and then more general ones like ‘tissues’ and ‘everything’….

MistyGreenAndBlue · 23/08/2023 13:00

CrazyFrogDingDing · 23/08/2023 12:49

This is what concerns me, along with the illegal harvesting prospect.
Think about it, not that many years ago, Joe public would never have thought that a man could be surgically transformed into a woman ( and vice versa of course ) but it's happened.
Now we're told of womb transplants, so based on the above, what's to say that it will be impossible at some point in the future for a man to receive a womb and everything else needed with it.
After all, up until steptoe did the first test tube babies, no one would have thought it possible that an infertile woman could become pregnant, now IVF is a common thing.
So realistically, in the future there is nothing to say that womb transplants wont be advanced enough to transplant into a bio male.
That is a worrying aspect.
Every surgical organ transplant was originally thought that it couldn't be done, it was a pipedream. However, as we know that through scientists and medical teams, it can be done, and very successfully too.
Heart, lung, kidneys, liver, corneas, even face and hand transplants.
So yes, I believe that in the future they will find a way to successfully transplant a womb into a bio man and that worries me for the future women.

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Exactly. We already have transwomen taking drugs to induce "lactation" and feeding newborns with whatever the hell it is they are producing.
No one involved seems to care about the children here. It's horrifying. If it becomes possible to implant a uterus in a male body, you can be sure they'll do it.

anotherside · 23/08/2023 13:00

@GrumpyOldCrone

I also don’t see this as a slippery slope to implanting wombs in men

Bit if it’s ok for women’s reproductive to be transplanted into others to fulfill the wishes of said individual, why shouldn’t the receiving individual be a man?

Knickerbockerglories · 23/08/2023 13:01

Chersfrozenface · 23/08/2023 12:56

I suggest everyone who is concerned about people removing themselves from the organ donation register in each country of the UK lobbies the relevant authorities to ensure the ability to opt out of donating any part of the reproductive system, specifically and unalterably.

Can’t you do that by just selecting what you are willing to donate? When I did it there were tick boxes for heart, lungs etc and then more general ones like ‘tissues’ and ‘everything’….

Musomama1 · 23/08/2023 13:01

This just feels wrong.

I get the whole surrogacy thing for your family and this is on a par with that as it's her sister.

But this will in time be used in a commercial sense and women will be exploited. Just like surrogacy. I also struggle to believe there are no long term ill effects to the donor and also the recipient for that matter. I wouldn't risk my family's health personally on this.

Goes without saying that women shouldn't have their organs used for wish fulfillment.

And of course, how long before a man wants this and gets this? No time at all I'll bet!

I think the bigger picture is never looked at.

Megifer · 23/08/2023 13:03

Knickerbockerglories · 23/08/2023 12:59

Can’t you do that by just selecting what you are willing to donate? When I did it there were tick boxes for heart, lungs etc and then more general ones like ‘tissues’ and ‘everything’….

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There is a tick list but its ambiguous to me. It would need to specifically state female reproductive system as an organ for me to opt out of for me to feel comfortable to go back on it.

Rosscameasdoody · 23/08/2023 13:03

indyocean · 23/08/2023 10:35

Christ alive

I see it coming. Pregnant blokes 😳

Yep, first thing that crossed my mind too !!

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 23/08/2023 13:03

TheWayoftheLeaf · 23/08/2023 12:49

@PumpkinsAndCoconuts brain dead people who are organ donors have been used for organs for decades. For hearts and lungs and eyes, faces and hands and kidneys and livers and veins with their families permission.

It's literally no different with this one! It would be a huge jump from organ donation to living incubator and one that is miles away from each other ethically.

I know that in theory.

and I’m not quite sure why I have such a visceral reaction to this. It just seems so… wrong.

and that truly was the image this report conjured up in my mind.
using brain dead surrogates (with the consent of their family etc.) just seems like something certain people would do in certain countries…

anotherside · 23/08/2023 13:04

Btw I’m not supporting transplanting wombs into men, but once you’ve taken that first step of saying transplanting child growing organs for non medical purpose is fine, then it’s hard to see a further logical or ethical argument against it.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/08/2023 13:04

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 23/08/2023 10:38

It scares me. We already have a worldwide commercial surrogacy business, with poor women in 2nd and 3rd world countries being paid to carry babies for the rich. It's not a stretch to imagine that womb harvesting of poor women for rich is the next step. Not to mention deluded transwomen (natal males) demanding womb transplantation as gender affirming surgery.

I'm an organ donor but my reproductive system is left off the "ok to take" list.

Totally agree.

JudgeJ · 23/08/2023 13:05

AIBU to be concerned about a potential dystopian future where women’s reproductive organs are harvested like car parts?

Just the same as heart, liver etc transplants, women's reproductive organs are nothing special.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 23/08/2023 13:06

TheWayoftheLeaf · 23/08/2023 12:49

@PumpkinsAndCoconuts brain dead people who are organ donors have been used for organs for decades. For hearts and lungs and eyes, faces and hands and kidneys and livers and veins with their families permission.

It's literally no different with this one! It would be a huge jump from organ donation to living incubator and one that is miles away from each other ethically.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/body/health/a42771871/brain-dead-women-surrogate/

https://healthnews.com/news/brain-dead-women-should-be-used-as-surrogates-report-suggests/

ah, I knew that I couldn’t be the only one to consider this.
body gestational donation. Aka surrogacy with brain dead women!!

Backlash over idea to use 'brain dead' women for surrogate pregnancies

"There is no obvious medical reason why initiating such pregnancies would not be possible"

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/body/health/a42771871/brain-dead-women-surrogate/

Iwantcakeeveryday · 23/08/2023 13:09

Megifer · 23/08/2023 13:03

There is a tick list but its ambiguous to me. It would need to specifically state female reproductive system as an organ for me to opt out of for me to feel comfortable to go back on it.

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I asked them some time ago about it specifically and there is no option for it so I removed myself entirely. I would select to exclude specifically these organs if they had given me that option knowing my concerns, but they didn't.

Dibblydoodahdah · 23/08/2023 13:09

I’ve got an anal skin tag. Had it for ten years since my second pregnancy. Causes me discomfort as it gets sore and it makes me feel disgusting as I can never clean properly. The NHS won’t do anything about it as it’s “cosmetic” but they will do a womb transplant which involves a huge medical team for many hours. Honestly, I get more fucked off by the day…