A moral question for you all

[WhaleSharkBootySweat]

Imagine you go into a really nice small business selling either homewares or food. You pick something up that you really like, but it's the end of the month and you can't really afford it. What is the main reason that stops you from stealing it?

A.) Fear of getting caught, punished, criminal record, shame, losing your job
B.) Sympathy for the small business owner, not wanting them to lose money

Or something else.
For me it's massively more B but then I don't steal from chain stores, so I guess A must come into it then?
I just wonder where these moral decisions we make daily come from. Is it fear of repercussions or genuine moral compass? Why do a third of shoppers steal from self checkouts but wouldn't steal from a cashier at the till?
I think about the idea that if there wasn't law and order, then we would all steal and murder, but I genuinely believe that most of us wouldn't? I mean I've never felt compelled to, but why is that? Empathy?

Option c

It's wrong.

None, stealing would never even cross my mind.

Its both. What we term as our 'morality' is just a combination of our empathy for others plus the consequences to us of breaching societal norms. Some people's thinking weighs more heavily towards one than the others.

Its wrong to steal ,end of. I have never been tempted! As far as taking from big companies is concerned people say they "wont miss it" Well they will ,and worse increase prices to the detriment of honest shoppers ,even security bar codes cost money!

@yellowsmileyface Excellent point! Surely having actually thought about why stealing is wrong makes you more moral than just stating that stealing is wrong because that’s just what you’ve been told and you accept it without question…?

(There’s a whole other can of worms here about whether morality really is based on harms and benefits or whether it’s just about societal norms and disgust but I don’t think there’s much point going into that here…!)

I think OP is asking us why we think it's wrong, which is quite interesting.

As Mrs Merton would say "Let's have a heated debate."

The reason many of us don't take things that aren't ours is that having your child ask you "Jimmy says you're a thief, is it true?" is too awful to contemplate.
I was once accused at work of something that I didn't do and the accuser's comment that "we're only questioning your honesty and integrity" told me everything about her lack of standards - and that I needed out.

I totally disagree - stealing is stealing is stealing whether is it want or need.

If this is a decision process you ever consciously think through, I think you’re lacking in basic morals. I don’t ever look at something and decide whether or not to steal it.

Which is the point of the thread. What are morals, are they universal, do they apply as a blanket in all circumstances?

How many benefit fraud threads are there where posters tell the OP asking if they should report it to “keep your sticky beak out, it’s none of your business, benefit fraud is tiny in comparison to unclaimed benefits”, thus condoning theft from the taxpayer? Post a thread about being a landlord who has a tenant who isn’t paying their rent and just wait for scores of the same people who are posting here to say that stealing is just always totally wrong to come and tell you it’s your own fault that your tenant is, effectively, stealing thousands of pounds from you. Look at the thread running in Legal about claiming adverse possession, which is ultimately a long-winded form of stealing land which belongs to somebody else. Read a thread about the lack of housing in the UK and see how long it takes before scores of posters begin advocating for government confiscation of second homes from their private owners to turn into social housing; or a monarchy thread where Republican posters will pontificate about overthrowing the monarchy, and taking their assets for the state because the monarchy didn’t work for what they own.

For more people than think it’s the case, whatever they might say they believe, “taking something which doesn’t belong to you is always totally and absolutely wrong whatever the circumstances or whoever it’s from” isn’t their actual moral standpoint.

Its just wrong.

Ah yes, but if you’re expecting a reasoned and balanced philosophical debate on mumsnet you’re going to be disappointed. Within the first few replies we had people telling the OP she needed to reset her own moral compass. Kudos to the OP for the intention to spark genuine debate but my money’s on yet another thread that will turn into a bun fight between people whose comprehension skills are not what they should be.

By the way, your imagined conversation between Plato and Socrates made me snort coffee out of my nose !!

I’ve never stolen anything. If I can’t afford something I can’t afford it.
Just taught manners and right from wrong when I was a child.

You should never steal to fulfil a want. Stealing food because you don’t have anything to feed the kids is one thing, stealing a nice trinket is another. If I was ever going to steal something I’d not personally give a crap if it was a big or small business though, I can’t imagine that’s on the minds of most who are desperate enough to resort to those measures.

I was homeless for 3 years... never stole.

Its NOT a justification for theft.

It would never enter my mind to steal from any business big or small.

I couldn't steal anything because I have been brought up to know I shouldn't.
I don't think about why I don't steal I just wouldn't think about stealing.
I have worked with people who have been sacked for stealing from work. I was shocked when I found out because It's just not anything that would occur to me.

Exactly this... if you dont have the money you simply can't have it.

I see more and more people have a sense of entitlement and thinking they should be owed what they want (and see as 'standard' though they aren't even necessities) now a days though.

If stealing was considered ok then everyone would steal and society couldn’t function. If you want to be part of civilised society you need to act in a way that enables it.By not stealing.

Also, if you steal, you are playing a part in creating a society where theft is the norm. I don’t want the society I live in to be like that. That’s a big part of any moral/ethical decision- what would the impact be if everyone did it? And if the impact would be negative, you need a really good reason why your circumstances justify you being the exception.

I wouldn't need to choose from A or B because stealing wouldn't have been an option for me anyway.

Agree with this.

For more people than think it’s the case, whatever they might say they believe, “taking something which doesn’t belong to you is always totally and absolutely wrong whatever the circumstances or whoever it’s from” isn’t their actual moral standpoint.

As evidenced upthread by the poster who vehemently condemned theft in the circumstances posed by the OP, but thought it would be perfectly fine to steal a suitcase full of money found in hidden a wood, in the full knowledge that it didn’t belong to them, that someone else had left it there for a reason, and despite the fact that there is a mechanism for handing found items in in the hope they will be returned to their rightful owners.

C.) Because stealing is wrong
D.) Because it literally wouldn’t cross my mind

And again, why does the OP’s moral compass need a reset ? She’s posing a moral and ethical question and hoping to spark philosophical debate, not advocating that we all go marauding into M&S and strip the shelves !! Comprehension skills on Mumsnet get worse every day.