To wonder that psychopaths can't help being like they are because they're born that way?

[GemGi]

If psychopaths are born psychopaths then can they really help being such awful people? Aren't they just born damned to be really awful people?

YABU - psychopaths CAN help it
YANBU - psychopaths CAN'T help it

I think fil is one.
Completely lacks empathy, towards me and dh at various points and thru this has made tragic situations worse.

He is also beyond competitive.

Most psychopaths don't go on to do horrendous things so I don't think when we are talking about accountability it depends. If we are talking about a loved one being empathetically incapable some leeway should probably be given but if we are talking about horrendous killings then that is still a choice unless there are some other mental heath factors at play (i dont for example thing someone who kills during a psychosis should be punished and should be housed in a treatment facility for other peoples safety but we are talking about psychopathy not psychosis here ). Someone may not empathetically understand why killing is wrong and may take pleasure from it but they are absolutely existing in a world that tells them it is wrong and psychopaths are capable of understanding this social concept and are in control of their actions.

I think people get caught up in thinking that people have very distinct elements to them that are either one thing or another

You could have psychopathic traits which lead you to hurt people because people are just tools to you and you dont care what happens or you dont care about social norms or levels of engagement.

That might be on a criminal level or just on an anti social level but equally you might do well in a job because you tread over people and get to the top

You might have psychopathic traits but also have comorbid disorders or syndromes which mean that you're less in control of your actios, you might have MH issues, an illness, you might have SEN or ND disorders.

You might have personality disorders on top of this, leading you to seek out situations where you want to control or hurt people and commit crime, you may not care whether you are committing crime

Im surprised that its seen that serial killers dont have psychopathy as part of their disorder, the whole point of killing someone like that is that the person is just a tool for you to achieve your aims, that is the very definition of psychopathy I would have thought

Certainly there can be co-morbidities and overlapping aspects, but the distinctions between disorders do matter if the goal is to reach better understanding of abnormal psychologies.

There is a difference between someone that hurts someone incidentally with no pleasure gained or guilt felt (psychopathic), someone that hurts someone because they believe they’re in fact the victim of the one they’ve hurt (narcissistic), and someone that hurts someone specifically because they get enjoyment from the pain inflicted (sadistic). You’re talking about very different psychologies for all three.

Sadistic Personality Disorder is very rarely acknowledged or talked about, and is commonly conflated with psychopathy. This really doesn’t help the understanding of either, and understanding is generally purported to be desirable:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/and-running/202106/the-personality-disorder-we-dont-hear-enough-about?amp

I really don’t think it’s that simple. A lot of people who are labelled ‘psychopaths’ because they’ve done awful things probably have other conditions or personality disorders alongside lacking empathy. Don’t forget, the Hare checklist is based on prisoners and so it will be skewed towards criminal behaviour / history.

I score very highly in terms of psychopathic traits, but not as a psychopath on the Hare checklist: I have no history of delinquency and am able to self reflect and consider consequences. Yet I’m comparison to pretty much everyone else I know, I’m definitely different. Am I a bad person? Absolutely not. I’m law-abiding and very self aware. Am I nice? No, but you’d think I was if you met me. I think there’s a huge difference between psychopaths or those with traits and sadists. The ‘psychopaths’ we hear about in the news and literature tend to be both, and I reckon environment and upbringing has a huuuuuge part to play in this

I have heard, just in general I mean, 'they don't know what they doing' yeah right but regardless they sure try and cover their tracks afterwards so they know it is wrong what they are doing Perhaps they know society will disapprove rather than that it's wrong.

I think childhood experiences and upbringing must be factored in as to how a psychopath behaves later on in life.

If spoilt or neglected this must have some bearing?

ASPD diagnosed person here (m).
Never ever trust anyone who claims or boasts to be a psychopath. It's just attention seeking behaviour of the highest order.

Like other conditions ours is on a spectrum, but most people think of the Hollywood trope type because that's their only exposure to the concept. I don't know how many times I have heard people making the most stupid claims because they read a buzzfeed article or the like.

I cannot speak for everyone on the spectrum and there might be people who genuinely cannot adapt and who will behave in an extreme fashion. Genereally we know how we are supposed to act, and we want to fit in. At the same time we know that we are acting because we cannot understand the need for these seemingly superfluous requirements.

Impulses and needs are very difficult to manage though, and they are probably the main reason why we hurt and cause chaos. It can be controlled to a certain degree but probably never 100%. As stated above I cannot speak for everyone but we are not sitting around at home trying to think of ways to make other people miserable. We are just looking out for ourselves while trying to stay above water.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for sharing. If you don't mind, please can you give examples of what experiences you have had with your impulses/needs? I'm just curious.

Mine are mainly control driven and they affect every part of my life to some degree. It impacts relationships, both intimate and professional ones and there are times when I find it difficult to keep in check but I usually succeed.
I have certainly prioritised my own needs over my partners (and will continue to do so), but I am aware when I am overstepping "common" boundaries.

Letby's crime is seemingly so motiveless and the victims so clearly innocent and total strangers to her Most violent crimes have a reason: passion (e.g. anger), greed, accident. The guilty are rarely strangers. Loads have reacted in a fit of anger or if they're premeditated they're not so out of character. She was cool as a cucumber. It's utterly bizarre. Psychopath or not - like Shipman - she certainly presented a different persona to her real one and was clearly an apt liar. It seems even her parents didn't even know the true her.

Look into murderers working in the healthcare industry and particularly in caring positions and you will realise that she is by no means a rarity. It does not make her a psychopath.

A lot of people are quick to diagnose psychopathy based on how hideous they find the crime, as if isn’t possible that someone that isn’t a psychopath. could do such a thing. I wonder to what extent it is a coping mechanism.

Lucy Letby doesn’t present as psychopathic, based on what I’ve read about her, and from what I can see Broadmoor psychiatrists themselves don’t consider her to fit in the antisocial category.