To bin or take anything left at their house

[Feelingfloaty22]

Hello

I have been staying at my parent's house with my dkids for the past few weeks as my dm is away on holiday and my df is elderly and vulnerable. I dont live that far from them (about 30 mins) and my db lives with parents but as he is fairly useless my dm did not feel comfortable leaving df with him and made me promise to stay at their house before she left. It has been at times an uncomfortable and tiring few weeks as I have had to deal with my dad's demands as well as caring for my kids but thankfully coming to an end.

My parent's house is extremely cluttered which makes it really difficult to clean. Part of the issue is my parents are both hoarders. My dad keeps so many random bits of electronics, books, medicines, multiple hats, bags, jackets and newspapers everywhere. My mum complains about my dad but does similar with piles of creams and lotions that are unopened (mostly presents she has received but never uses), loads of empty plant pots, vases and cookware as well as fabric.

Im trying to find space to put away their things as well as chuck away the expired, broken or useless stuff. However another problem is that alot of their space is taken up with stuff that people who have lived or stayed at their house have left behind. My youngest dsis is the worst offender and has left a full wardrobe of her shit behind as well as old books, beauty products etc. She moved out 3 years ago and has her own flat but feels entitled to store her stuff at my parents. A privilege she denied to me and older dsis when we moved out and basically harassed us to take our stuff or it would be thrown away. My dsil has also left a load of her stuff behind. She lives abroad and comes over rarely. Neither my dsil or younger dsis clean up when at my parents except their specific mess even when they stay for a lomg period of tine. By clean i mean the communal spaces like kitchen, bathroom, living room etc yet still feel entitled to leave their shit behind. It's not just kept to one room it's spread throughout my dparents house so i find traces in different rooms. I have been out of my parents house for years so have cleared my stuff out long ago except for the occasional jumper, sock or water bottle left by my kids which I'm making sure to take with me. My older dsis also is mostly gone from the house and anything she does leave behind she is not fussed about.

My parents have a problem with mice in their home (I haven't seen any whilst I have been here but I can see the traces left behind). I'm trying to clear up before my mum comes back as i feel it would be a bad end to her holiday to come back to a filthy house and as me and my kids have been staying here we have contributed to the mess.

As I said earlier all the clutter makes it difficult to clean so I have now adopted the policy of binning what I think is useless or taking what I feel is useful unless i can find a place for it. My older dsis thinks I'm wrong but to be honest I'm doing my parents a massive favour deepcleaning their house in my spare time when I have my own to do and I feel like if people are so careless or selfish not to either throw away or take their shit with them leaving it to others to deal with their mess they don't have the right to complain. I'm not throwing away or taking anything valuable more like stuff that is out of sight out of mind. My dm does the same to my dads stuff am I wrong to apply this rule to everyone's stuff in the house?

Stuff I have taken is things like unopened cosmetic/body/hand creams (there are loads of them lying around as my mum gets gifted them but doesnt use them - but doesnt give them or throw them away either), an empty sunglasses case, plant pots etc.

If she wanted you to have them she would have given them to you though. It comes across a bit sneaky to wait until she’s gone to take these things from her house.

Well you DF is right there OP, so why not ask him what he thinks? As for your DM, again why not ask if you can have a good clear out while you're there to make her life easier? I suspect though they'll both tell you to leave well alone as hoarders are TERRIFIED of anyone touching all their old rubbish and inadvertently throwing away some treasure like an old telephone that could be fixed or some nails that might come in handy or a 5-year-old newspaper that they could use for some unforeseen occurrence. My FIL was a terrible hoarder - he kept absolutely everything and went ballistic if anyone touched his stuff. MIL had an absolute field day chucking it all out when he died!

I feel your pain OP but feel you would be setting yourself up forever as the bad guy if you throw things out, however useless they are. In your shoes I would box up your sisters' stuff, no matter what it is, out of date or not - and label the boxes with their names, then stack them somewhere not used everyday - like spare bedroom, loft or garage. Box up some of your DM's stuff that she does not use but give it to her when she is back. Hopefully this will enable you to declutter enough to clean up a bit, without becoming public enemy no. 1 (however unfairly). Talk to your DB about taking some responsibility for the running of the household.

Tarantino I 100% agree with you. I have tried to talk to my parents about it but they get very defensive and protective of him. I have been staying here for 3 weeks though and I have seen that my bro will not do anything. I asked him to clean the upstairs bathroom two weeks ago as he is the main person who uses it and he said why should I, am I the one who made the mess? The problem is when it gets so filthy you have no choice but to do it because your there and i cant stand the smell. Also its very easy to shift the blame for the mess on me and my kids so I have to clean up to a certain extent the mess we have made. But alot of it is accumulated shit. That's why I'm ignoring bedrooms because other than the room we stayed in we are not responsible for the state of them.

My dad would never stay at my house. He is in his 70s and very attached to his space and things. My dad is fairly easy to look after though he can be entitled and demanding at times. I have helped my mum in the past especially with clearing my dad's room as she needs back up because he doesn't want anyone touching his stuff but his room is so cluttered that it doesn't get cleaned for weeks at a time so it's a two person job to clear the rubbish then clean it. To be honest even if everyone else's stuff disappeared my dad would still take up a lot of room as he leaves his stuff on dining tables, window sills in the bathroom and corridor. It's difficult to tell what he needs or doesn't need as well so I just tend to box up his papers.

I have tried speaking to my dsis about taking her stuff but she says it's none of my business and is very possessive of her old room. My mum also tends to take her side. I'm not really touching her stuff as it is put away generally. Dsil however lives abroad. She has left behind loads of clothes as she used to live here with my brother (long story but hopefully he will join her soon). Again I'm not touching stuff that she left in her room with my brother but she left behind so many cosmetics and medicines in the bathroom.

My dad has already thanked me for cleaning up as well as my brother. They may notice the missing stuff eventually but I think they will first be enjoying the clutter free and clean space first.

It is very awkward, but I think sometimes, you have to let things fail. Propping up the status quo (i.e. pandering to your brothers behaviour) masks the underlying problem and makes it easier for your DM and DF to stick their heads in the sand.

What would happen if you told your DM that, sorry, you aren't going to be able to move in next time she goes away? It would bring things to a head - which might be what's needed. You don't have to be confrontational, but you do need to set boundaries because the way you are being treated is totally unfair.

Any out-of-date cosmetics left by your SIL in the bathroom can be chucked away. Cosmetics have a use-by date (usually six or 12 months after opening), so they'll be well out of date if she's been gone for years. Ditto medicines - check the use-by date and get rid of anything that's expired. Please take them to the local pharmacy and ask them to dispose of them safely as medicines shouldn't be just thrown in the bin.

If you want to tackle communal areas you could always use the mice as a reason. It's extremely unhygienic to have vermin in a house. Mice piss and shit all over the place and if you have mice (or rats, cockroaches or any other infestation), you really need to get the place cleaned up, traps put down and the problem dealt with. Can you afford to have a pest control person come and give advice as that will back up your argument for a good clear up?

Hoarding is a particularly intractable mental health issue. Even when it is affecting health and quality of life it is really hard to get someone to let go.
I have experience of this in my work and personal life.
I would get rid of some stuff, likely the space you create will just be filled right up again, and if they notice they will be upset with you, all you can do is tell them you did it because you care, you need to clean and only discarded stuff that clearly couldn't be used.

The alternative is to leave it all as it is.

I think either choice is acceptable for different reasons.

If it’s stuff you’ve found under sofas etc, I doubt anyone knows it’s there.

I would just be honest and say that there were mice/rats in the house, so you’ve thoroughly cleaned and disinfected. Belongings have been moved to the relevant rooms, and anything showing signs of rodent damage has been binned. No sane person is going to give their baby a bottle that rodents have urinated/ defaecated on.

You probably need to call in a pest controller as well, to find out how they’re getting in.

You can’t take your mum’s stuff, whether she uses it or not.

Is there a chance that your mum was so keen for you to stay because she knew you’d tackle a job that she couldn’t face doing herself?

Can you not box all the crap up and help your DM/DF sort through it when she's back? The stuff belonging to family members could be boxed up and stored somewhere their own houses pending collection.
You can't decide what is for the bin and what isn't, but you can help your DM/DF decide by making it easy for them

Exactly Pimpmyfridge. This is a long standing issue in there house particularly because of my dad but also my mum. They have the right to keep their stuff in the house but it annoys me when space is taken up by my siblings and people who don't live there. They don't take responsibility for cleaning the house and instead it gets left on my my mum to do. I do help when I can but I have my own responsibilities to take care of. As I have been staying here it's given me enough time and lack of interference to clean but like you said I'm scratching the surface and it will be back to how it was in no time.

Tarantino when I tried to tell my mum I didn't need to stay over because my bro was there and I could just pop in to see him she got very emotional and said she would have never booked her holiday if she had known I wouldn't stay with him. If something happened to my dad while she wasn't there I feel she would hold me partly responsible for not staying. However in future I will not be doing this. I get that my mum needs a break but I feel she over relies on me and doesn't expect much from my bro. For example before she left she showed me how to make my dad's meals not my bro. She definitely has enabled both of them which is why she needs a break sometimes but my bro in particular is unbearable to live with.

she got very emotional and said she would have never booked her holiday if she had known I wouldn't stay with him. If something happened to my dad while she wasn't there I feel she would hold me partly responsible for not staying.

This is totally and utterly unreasonable of her. I know you know this, but it definitely isn't your responsibility.

I'm guessing this dynamic has been there a long time - I bet he was never taught to do chores as a teen either? It has been your mother's (and father's) choice, over the last 30 years, to pander to your brothers behaviour. His failings are not your fault and you shouldn't be expected to plug that gap.

They are treating you so unfairly, and relying on your sense of obligation and guilt that you will continue to make up for others' failings.

If your sister's stuff is all away in a wardrobe for example I'd leave it.

What sort of stuff has SIL left?

Can that be put in with sister's stuff?

I'm guessing your Mum would say not to throw it?

Your DB sounds like a massive man baby , but your DM has enabled that so not surprising really. You've done a good thing giving your mum peace of mind and a break . I wouldn't jump straight on to her about the house or DF and DB, let her settle back in. But maybe ring her next week and say you've noticed how things are in the house, ask if you can help her by getting DSIL and DSIS to clear stuff out? Or get them a storage box each to put their crap in and then that can go in garage ? can you go over without this kids for a day or so? Have a good clear out with her? Yes DB should help , but he probably won't . Could he do tip runs for you?

Crikey, so few people seem to have any idea of what it is like in a hoarder's house, and are criticising the OP because of it. Honestly, if some things are that filthy, broken and a health hazard then they need to be got rid of when the person isn't looking. There will be so much of it they'll never notice anyway.

Hoarding is a mental illness and notoriously hard to treat. The person is never going to agree to throw old old bean tins or microwave containers or empty ketchup bottles 'because they might come in useful'. There's only so much that you can leave.

OP, I understand where you are coming from, and agree that the very worst of the mess should go, but you do need to be careful with your siblings' belongings.

Well done you, I think it’s super kind of you to do so much cleaning and clearing so your mother has a nice welcome home.

Oh @Feelingfloaty22 I read your thread today and felt for you. How did it work out when your DM got home? Was she pleased or horrified? Has DB moved out yet? I relate so much to your story. When I met DH he was living in a bungalow with his DC coming and going and his DPs in his dining room and they had cluttered their own house to death and couldn’t live there. It took four years of effort to sort everybody out. Once I removed 120 bottles of shampoo, shower gel etc from the ONLY bathroom and sorted them. MIL promptly took a stash into their room. There is something that saps the will and drags you down about trying to sort out half useful crap to make a house habitable. DH nearly set fire to the DPs house one day when it all got too much. Happily all is well ten years on although I am inspired to have a tidy up.