Considering retraining as primary school teacher

[Thinkingofteaching]

Currently employed full time in a middle management position in HR for Civil Service. Absolutely hate it. Originally completed my degree in Education with a 2:1 but for personal reasons at the time decided not to continue to PGCE year straight after.

Fast-forward 10 years and I’m now mid-thirties, a (very content) lone parent to an 2 year old and generally happy in every aspect of my life besides work. AIBU to consider quitting my comfy but otherwise happiness-sapping role and retrain as a primary school teacher?

I’ve applied for the salaried route and am awaiting an update on next stage which would be interview. Looking for the views of either existing primary school teachers and / or, ideally, single parents who work in the field. No hyperbole please, just the facts.

Thanks in advance.

@Thinkingofteaching

Ive been a school governor. Where I’ve been, Heads have tried very hard to have a work life balance for staff. I’ve also found though some teachers are not organised and they find the job more difficult and need more support. We don’t have loads leaving though. Recruitment not difficult either. So good schools do exist and heads can be decent human beings: they are parents too!

I think the main thing is be careful about where you work. Look at the type of school and get the low down on the head and culture. The most pressure comes after a poor ofsted but they might have a ban on newly qualified teachers joining. A well run school is supportive and a decent place to work.

I would say go for it. I think you come across as really wanting to teach having done an education degree. Others teach after drifting into it. You are already mentally wanting to do it. Go in with your eyes open. You will get decent holidays and a decent pension. Teachers can spend way more time with Dc over the summer than a highly pressured job holder elsewhere (and others work long hours for 48 weeks of the year!) Teachers tend to forget this.

Teachers tend to forget this

Many of the 133,000 members of the ‘Life after teaching: Exit the Classroom and thrive’ Facebook group acknowledge the holidays as being a huge benefit, but it’s still not enough to make them stay. Lots of teachers take much lower paid jobs purely to get out.

@Thinkingofteaching I would have a good read of that page if you are on Facebook, so that you go in with your eyes fully open.

it is incredibly judgemental of you to say the teachers that don't manage are badly organised. It is more likely to be the other way around, they are not overwhelmed because they are badly organised, they appear badly organised because they are overwhelmed.

I have a volunteer role where I work alongside several heads, and they are always bleating on about how good the work life balance is at their schools, and their staff are well looked after, and lucky, etc. Then in term time I catch the bus with some of their staff, and hear the other side

As for heads and managers being parents, that matters very little, how many of them are mothers?

Again, the last school where I heard the head boast that they have parents on the staff, turned out that there were something like 3 fathers, who were all OEW.

I would see your attitude as a huge red flag, and avoid any school with a governor that speaks like this - they are likely to be part of the problem

I have to say, I agree. Some of the governors we have had have swanned in three times a year for a meeting, and see nothing of what goes on behind the scenes. @Thinkingofteaching you would be best off take advice from people actually doing the job, rather than someone who doesn’t teach telling you that teachers have good pensions and ‘tend to forget’ how good they have it!

It is like bullying in schools, any school that claims it never happens are in denial. As opposed to a school that says "yes it happens, and we have a robust policy to deal with it" - who are indicating that they are dealing with the problem.

A school that says " our staff have a good work life balance and manage fine unless they are disorganised" is in total denial.

You want to hear your managers say " yes it is tough, but we try limit the workload as far as possible, and want you to come and tell us if you are overloaded, or have suggestions about how to decrease the workload"

This is a school that is more likely to be supportive

Ok so you don’t understand the role of governors or the time we give. Unpaid. Or our expertise. Or the value of a partnership. That says a lot about you.

I do think you have to be incredibly well organised to teach and have a young family. Other jobs require similar skills. Not just teaching. For anyone contemplating teaching it’s best to analyse what’s needed for the best outcomes. Plus the op does work already.

Just underlying the previous posters’ points really that you’re set to transmit but not receive! I don’t work in teaching so have no skin in the game but this thread is illuminating.

Simply don’t get your point. Luckily I’ve worked with great grads and teachers. Anyway I’m really trying to advise the op. Clearly working in a school with great staff and slt matters. Governors are part of the school community. Shame some teachers don’t respect them.

I've been teaching for over 20 years, from a young single to now with secondary aged kids.

I love my job but it was very difficult when my children were young and I had a husband who did (and still does) the lion's share of out of school pick ups and drop offs plus housework and cooking. I don't know if I could have managed without that and lots of help from grandparents. It's a toss up between being a present parent or an outstanding teacher and I never feel that I get the balance right.

The classroom part is what keeps me going, plus supportive colleagues and an understanding SLT. The children are the best. The paperwork and jumping through hoops for Ofsted will finish me off. I'm the most organised person in the world and I have to do work at home to get by.

If I had my time again, I would pick a different career and I say that sadly. It's not the job it once was.

I wouldn't. Lots of teachers have left teaching for the civil service. What about changing departments or role instead?

I have been a (staff) governor for 5 years, in two different schools.

i understand the role very well.

yet agree wholeheartedly with the other posters who have challenged your post, and my heckles came up when you said that teachers just ‘don’t understand’ how good the long holidays are.

We do understand. It’s still not worth it.

I’m never going to teach again and your attitude of the yes, the stick is really high but you can jump over it if you are ✨organised✨ is making people
unwell and making experienced staff run away.

Thank you for this! I’m not even in teaching but found this poster’s attitude really poor. And rather than engage with the points raised just ignored them entirely and pouted, playing wounded soldier in a way that was completely irrelevant to the points expressed. Seemed almost a bit manipulative really, neat way to sidestep the conversation!

I have worked alongside many governors over the years-some are great, others are dreadful, like most people.

If you want to decide whether to do a job, you need to speak predominantly to people who already do the job, not those who don’t, who tell you teachers have got a good deal and they just need to work in a school with a ‘good’ head, be organised and all will be fine. That head can leave/be sacked/have a heart attack in the blink of an eye and the school will change overnight.

Been a teacher for 14 years and until April I loved it. However, had a recent bad experience involving parents, that has made me realise how vulnerable we are as a profession and now all my joy has gone.

I've seen many changes over the years and most are those that we easily adapt to, but recently, it feels different. Go into it eyes wide open and with a thick skin.

It’s rather like someone asking if they should go into medicine and a hospital administrator telling you to do it because the pay and pension are great and you just need to work in a well-led department!

There are some real horror stories here. I work (and have worked) in fairly shite schools, but I do it as a single mum and have done throughout each of my little ones having been, well, little.

It's only ever a job for you (in England, that is) if you are prepared for periods in which teaching takes over your life. As such, that will be every September, every data collection/ drop, every deep dive or Ofsted, as a primary teacher also every time you have to write reports.

I work in secondary now but I have done a fair bit of work in primary schools, too. The marking expectation is mental in primary schools compared to secondaries, but in-class support and behaviour tend to be better than in secondaries.

In either, school culture is a massive maker or breaker of teachers. There are fewer and fewer decent heads and SLT left owing to the mass exodus of teachers in general, so it is much harder now to find a good school than when I started. And when I say good, it could be Ofsted Inadequate (doesn't take much) but have happy staff.

If you find a school with young SLT, a large turnover (advertise for similar roles all the time) and a bad reputation (read parent voice on the Ofsted site) then run a mile. If you find a school which arrely advertises, go for it. It's because staff don't want to leave. Having said that, naturally, you might find you start in one of the former schools, and occasionally even every time you're promoted (I am in that position now where the leadership role I wanted is mostly advertised in crap schools).

You must be highly organised. I have no family or friend support, but I have a lovely childminder, who knows other childminders, so someone is always available for late meetings and parents' evenings. When my young child is ill, I don't give two fucks how it's seen, I am staying home and argue the toss with leaders.

When I need to go early, I find a convenient time (e.g. if I have a PPA at the end of the day) and I negotiate with the Head directly. I book every single bloody appointment for the holidays for me and my kids. I refuse to work late nights, but might work early mornings instead, because that's my awake time and a time the kids are sleeping soundly. I use every meeting I can get away with it in to mark or complete other paperwork. I mark in class, during parents' evenings (where I also pull parents early if they are waiting, sod the appointment time) and I use every assessment to mark and/ or plan.

I get into work early to hog the photocopier so I'm done before my colleagues all arrive and inevitably all want it at the same time. I use my voice with SLT and speak up, but the other side to that is that I have to be outstandingly good to be able to BE that annoying.

Oh, and I only work a few days during the summer holiday and a max of 2 days the other holidays. I'm not paid for it, but I can justify every minute actually spent at work (where there will be a lot of natural time wasters). So if anyone ever said why is xyz late I can give them a list of what I did that took priority.

It takes a lot to be as brazen as I am in teaching while doing a good job. You won't make friends, but you'll preserve your mental health while maintaining the respect of many senior staff and the head or above, which is what counts.

Nonsense, I have been a governor in 3 different schools

Do you have good reliable childcare ?because teachers have no flexibility.
Also be prepared for not being able go go to events that happen during the school day or to be able to take your child to or from school. I know several ex teachers who gave up teaching so they could have greater flexibility.
You also need to be prepared to work from home in the evenings lesson planning, marking etc
If you can cope with the above and you think you will feel more fulfilled then of course go for it. But it's not an easy job when you have children

My “hackles “ (note spelling) came up at the huge negativity about teaching. There are good points about the job and having weeks off in the summer is one as are decent pensions. No wonder no one wants to join reading some of the dire stories here. You can pile on all you like but many teachers value the holidays. And like retiring early. All things never talked about. Anyway I’m sure the op can make up her own mind about what she values.

I absolutely love my job as a primary school teacher, I retrained at 29 years of age. Best of luck to you

I was a primary teacher for ten years before having children. Some things to be aware of:

• most schools are highly hierarchical, you will become a newbie and some SLT (not all, I hope I was a nice one!) are unkind.

• There will definitely be parents who are nasty to you, however reasonable you are

• Conversially, you will work with people who you think have no business working with children

• You will have at least one child in your class who probably need a special needs school (their parents may be fighting for it) and other children who need more help that you can give.

• Between 8.45-3.15 you’re on stage. It’s like a long improv scene and you’ll be shattered

• You’ll also have a day’s worth of prep & paperwork to do when they go home, but your brain won’t be firing on all cylinders.

I think if you are of the temperament and life stage (pre or post small children) to be a foster carer, then primary teaching is for you. It’s exhausting, you sometimes work with numpties, you need bucket loads of emotional intelligence (and general intelligence doesn’t hurt either), you work in a broken system BUT you do have the ability to make a massive difference in children’s lives. They will likely remember you when they’re 40. It’s a huge burden and a huge privilege.

Right now, I have small kids including one who has additional needs so I can’t be that person. But if you can with your eyes open, then go for it.

I’m 5 years post leaving teaching, working full time again and the flexibility in my role means I just don’t need the ‘holidays’ which in reality were often half collapse and half prep for the next term (or finishing the things I was behind on).

“note spelling”

Are you serious? 😆😆😆

TizerorFizz
I think the positives - holidays and pension - have been somewhat overshadowed in recent years. Workload has also shifted significantly. There is less admin support and fewer TAs to support in the classroom. More and more children with complex needs attend mainstream schools but there has not been the investment needed to make it work. The Ofsted shift to assessing the curriculum and deep dives has also meant that SLT put more and more pressure on teachers to prepare more and more paperwork and to revise 'answers' to deep dive questions. There is also less and less give as they try to trim budgets as much as possible. For example: many schools now give the minimum PPA that they can. Every minute of directed time is filled and teachers who work in their own time as well feel more and more that their working conditions are poor. Many people on SLT and in particular headteachers have not worked as classroom teachers for many years. It is very easy to forget the pressures of the role. Governors have a good understanding of strategic decisions, but not so much about the normal, everyday reality of the classroom. (I have been a governor for many years!)

I did my primary PGCE in 2000-2001, and at that time had a 1yo and a 3yo. Wasn't a single parent, but might as well have been 🙄and he's exH now! Yes, teaching took up a lot of 'free' time and I missed loads of their school events, but they understood I had the holidays with them and lots of parents didn't get that. I worked in six different schools and attitudes to workload and parental responsibilities varied. It really helps to have a good support network and for your school to be pretty close to theirs to save too much driving around. I used to do the daycare drop off and the breakfast club drop off before I got to work and was always the last one in, so I made sure I was super prepared when leaving school the day before. I'm not teaching now but I only stopped in July 2022.