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Original poster

We should abolish military specific ‘offense’

57 replies

Theworried2 · 15/08/2023 20:59

Watching the new Channel 5 show ‘Court Martial: Soldiers behind bars’ has made me think how unjust it is that soldiers are locked up for things that would not be an offence in civilian life like going AWOL or being drunk at work.
Surely soldiers should get the same rights as normal civilians and only ever be jailed for civilian crimes.
To be clear, those who commit murder as a soldier should be jailed as it is a civilian crime too, but those who go on AWOL for example should not as this would not be a crime in normal life.

OP posts:
BMW6 · 15/08/2023 22:06

My DH vehemently disagrees with you OP, and he spent considerable times in Military Prison!

We watched the programme and he was shocked at how soft it is these days.

CandyflossKaren · 15/08/2023 22:07

I think op's kid has been caught still drunk from a bender and is worrying about Prison sentence.....mummy has said 'come home' but kiddo can't go awol....

tommika · 15/08/2023 22:07

Theworried2 · 15/08/2023 20:59

Watching the new Channel 5 show ‘Court Martial: Soldiers behind bars’ has made me think how unjust it is that soldiers are locked up for things that would not be an offence in civilian life like going AWOL or being drunk at work.
Surely soldiers should get the same rights as normal civilians and only ever be jailed for civilian crimes.
To be clear, those who commit murder as a soldier should be jailed as it is a civilian crime too, but those who go on AWOL for example should not as this would not be a crime in normal life.

Did you notice the ‘drunk at work’ case was a medic who decided to drink whilst alerted to take cover during an attack on operations?

guiltyfeethavegotnorythym · 15/08/2023 22:09

It's not a job , it's a life , the same if you marry a soldier , you marry into the armed forces . It's a family too . Not for the faint hearted .
They look after the soldier and the family .

CantThinkOfANameAtAll · 15/08/2023 22:44

Theworried2 · 15/08/2023 21:19

@PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog No I’m just the parent of a young adult who feels it is harsh that young adults in the army have to deal with these, in my opinion punitive rules.

In addition, I feel that it should be a point of principle that everyone has the same rights , military or civilian. Maybe if we changed the tough attitudes in the army, fewer ex veterans would have mental health issues.

It's really going to blow your mind when you find out some actually die in combat. Some even die under "friendly fire". Civilian and military life can never be compared as different expectations are needed for frontline work. They don't work 9-5 either 😱

tommika · 15/08/2023 23:12

Theworried2 · 15/08/2023 21:19

@PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog No I’m just the parent of a young adult who feels it is harsh that young adults in the army have to deal with these, in my opinion punitive rules.

In addition, I feel that it should be a point of principle that everyone has the same rights , military or civilian. Maybe if we changed the tough attitudes in the army, fewer ex veterans would have mental health issues.

If the additional rules and legislation of the Armed forces act etc are a factor, then you should be pleased to find that mental health issues are at a lower rate for ex services then for the general population

https://www.centreformentalhealth.org.uk/veterans-mental-health-key-facts#:~:text=Rates%20of%20mental%20illness%20amongst,four%20in%20the%20general%20population.

Veterans' mental health: key facts | Centre for Mental Health

An overview of the evidence around veterans’ mental health

https://www.centreformentalhealth.org.uk/veterans-mental-health-key-facts#:~:text=Rates%20of%20mental%20illness%20amongst,four%20in%20the%20general%20population.

Hawkins009 · 15/08/2023 23:14

PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog · 15/08/2023 21:01

Miltary service is not normal life. If they are too drunk to do their job or run away in conflict, we are all fucked.

Exactly

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:16

It’s not ‘real’ jail. They get a chance to sort themselves.
Plentynof people get arrested for being drunk, fighting, attacking people etc
etc

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:19

Being drunk when you have a weapon =
very fucking dangerous, risking their lives and others.
Most soldiers aren’t the brightest bulbs, that’s why they’re in the army when they have no qualifications, no other path, get in trouble etc they’re young people who wouldn’t get anywhere in real life.
rules are needed to keep them from messing up.

Thedogscollar · 15/08/2023 23:28

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:19

Being drunk when you have a weapon =
very fucking dangerous, risking their lives and others.
Most soldiers aren’t the brightest bulbs, that’s why they’re in the army when they have no qualifications, no other path, get in trouble etc they’re young people who wouldn’t get anywhere in real life.
rules are needed to keep them from messing up.

Good enough to protect the likes of you though.
How fucking rude and patronising are you?

lunaalice · 15/08/2023 23:32

The certainly don't look after the families and we aren't one big family.?

guiltyfeethavegotnorythym · 15/08/2023 23:33

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:19

Being drunk when you have a weapon =
very fucking dangerous, risking their lives and others.
Most soldiers aren’t the brightest bulbs, that’s why they’re in the army when they have no qualifications, no other path, get in trouble etc they’re young people who wouldn’t get anywhere in real life.
rules are needed to keep them from messing up.

That's just not true , there are many professions in the armed forces , most soldiers do have qualifications and studied for their jobs . You clearly don't have a clue .

lunaalice · 15/08/2023 23:35

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:19

Being drunk when you have a weapon =
very fucking dangerous, risking their lives and others.
Most soldiers aren’t the brightest bulbs, that’s why they’re in the army when they have no qualifications, no other path, get in trouble etc they’re young people who wouldn’t get anywhere in real life.
rules are needed to keep them from messing up.

Sounds harsh but DH recruits Royal Marines. Most of the time he sends them to the Army Recruitment office.

Justbecause19 · 16/08/2023 06:45

This post can't be real Confused, I suggest your child doesn't sign up to the military Op. I'm serving and not even going to try and explain

DownNative · 16/08/2023 06:50

No, because soldiers are NOT civilians. Under International Humanitarian Law a civilian is anyone who is not in the military.

So, police officers ARE civilians whereas soldiers are NOT.

Yes, I was a PADs Brat.

DownNative · 16/08/2023 06:53

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:19

Being drunk when you have a weapon =
very fucking dangerous, risking their lives and others.
Most soldiers aren’t the brightest bulbs, that’s why they’re in the army when they have no qualifications, no other path, get in trouble etc they’re young people who wouldn’t get anywhere in real life.
rules are needed to keep them from messing up.

Clueless. Recruits can and do learn trades whilst in the army. For example, those who join transport regiments will most of the time walk into civvy HGV driving jobs given their qualifications.

And so on.

CasperGutman · 16/08/2023 07:15

Yes, they're punitive rules. But they're supposed to be. Punishment is ultimately necessary for military personnel to be ready to perform with discipline in wartime.

The point of the military is to go into battle and fight, and potentially die. Discipline must be practiced and learned and internalised in preparation for this. How well do you think it would go if soldiers in peacetime were allowed to behave like any other workers, then as soon as fighting started the command structure suddenly started expecting unquestioning discipline?

BygoneDays · 16/08/2023 07:17

everybody in the army will disagree with you.

BygoneDays · 16/08/2023 07:20

Thesenderofthiscard · 15/08/2023 23:19

Being drunk when you have a weapon =
very fucking dangerous, risking their lives and others.
Most soldiers aren’t the brightest bulbs, that’s why they’re in the army when they have no qualifications, no other path, get in trouble etc they’re young people who wouldn’t get anywhere in real life.
rules are needed to keep them from messing up.

My soldier son has just completed his PhD after leaving the army a few years ago. I think the army has changed from when you were reading your brother’s comics.

PuttingDownRoots · 16/08/2023 07:20

Without Colchester... these would be sacking offences. What good would that do? All that money training someone, a steady background for them.. then thrown away after a bit of stupidity?

asecretslob · 16/08/2023 09:06

@Thesenderofthiscard how offensive what do you do that is so vital to society

Tippley · 16/08/2023 09:10

There need to be strict and enforceable rules in the military. Guessing you haven't ever served, but these are made very clear to you, there are now plenty of ways to seek support and to avoid falling foul of these. YABU.

popcornfrenzy · 16/08/2023 09:25

Ex-soldier here - the rules are something you sign up to. I signed up for 22 years but didn't complete and signed off earlier.

It may shock you to know that many soldiers are drunk at work when in peacetime but during ops they tend to be dry (unless you can get your hands on whatever alcohol you can find)

I enjoyed my time in the military - it's certainly set me up for life in terms of pension, transferable skills and a certain level of pride which has helped with getting civvy jobs.

I'll never be a civvy I'm a veteran who served my country.

Fieldofbrokenpromises · 16/08/2023 09:35

UABU and ridiculous

DownNative · 16/08/2023 09:38

popcornfrenzy · 16/08/2023 09:25

Ex-soldier here - the rules are something you sign up to. I signed up for 22 years but didn't complete and signed off earlier.

It may shock you to know that many soldiers are drunk at work when in peacetime but during ops they tend to be dry (unless you can get your hands on whatever alcohol you can find)

I enjoyed my time in the military - it's certainly set me up for life in terms of pension, transferable skills and a certain level of pride which has helped with getting civvy jobs.

I'll never be a civvy I'm a veteran who served my country.

Respect to you for your service! Were you part of OP Herrick or anything like that?

In my family, we've WW1, WW2, OP Banner, BAOR, OP Granby and OP Herrick (I think!).

Every veteran I know personally all agree that veterans are civilians. Indeed, under International Humanitarian Law, they ARE civilians since they're no longer in the armed forces.