Keys taken and copied - a crime?

[Elzibells]

My grandad is 80 and has dementia. He is still able to live independently but is vulnerable and unable to assert himself. I visit each day to give him his meals and medication, walk the dog etc. My sister and nephew have been stealing money and items in the past. When they visit they don't just sit in the lounge and chat, they go all over the house even upstairs without asking. They have keys and have been in the house when he is out and have moved or taken items. He understandably finds this all very unnerving and upsetting. He feels scared in his home, thinking they could just walk in whenever they want. Recently, the locks were changed to make sure no one other than my grandad and I had keys. When my sister visited with my nephew, they simply picked the keys up off the side and insisted they needed a copy in case of emergencies. My grandad tried to stop them but he was unable to fully stand up to them, they took the keys and had them copied and have again been letting themselves in.

The police have said there is nothing they can do but surely if I just walked in to someone's house and picked up their keys, got a copy and came round whenever I liked I would be in alot of trouble? AIBU to expect the police to do something about this?

They are not your keys, it’s your Grandad who will have to make a complaint about it unfortunately.
Also, if he has dementia who is his next of kin or does anyone have POA?
Your best bet would be to contact Age Concern or Adult SS and tell them he is a victim of Elder Abuse

I think this is a difficult one as a crime because he's giving them permission. From a moral/ethical view it seems clear that their actions are wrong but I don't know if it meets a legal threshold for a crime.

Are there any additional security measures you could put in like a lockbox for money and valuables, you can get ones that use fingerprint rather than keys to open so they wouldn't be able to take anything out without telling him that's what they're doing and getting him to open the box.

Or you put cameras around if he'd be willing and catch them stealing on camera.

Should have said...cctv was put up at same time the locks were changed, that's how I have seen what's occurred. Grandad shows resistance to them taking the keys but doesn't grab them back or argue you like you or I would. He is scared of my sister and nephew. They pressure him.
There is a POA in place, maybe they should have reported it to the Police rather than me.
Thanks for your replies, I'll telephone Age Concern.

There is - its a theft. As they are related, its a domestic incident and a crime against a vulnerable person, so should be high up.

Can you go back with the CCTV footage?

Do you know exactly what was stolen on that occasion?

For example - If you can state I was there at 0800 hrs and returned at 1600 hours. In that time sister & nephew have walked in, went into he bedroom and £200 was taken, they had no permission to do this - they are pretty much banged to rights.

I know it's another expense but what about changing the locks again to the type of lock where keys need a code to be copied?

Have the locks registered with you so your grandad doesn't know the code?

I hate thieves, especially thieves in the family.

Its a despicable crime.

Its like the ones you see on TV where hidden cameras have caught a carer stealing money from the person they are supposed to be caring for.

Prosecution all the time.

Can you put in a secure coded door lock and not give them access

How upsetting for your Granddad. Get him a safe that is fingerprint controlled and make sure any valuables are kept inside. Change the locks again to get safety locks that can't be copied. They are more expensive but essential in your Granddad's situation. I'd speak to your sister and tell her if anything goes missing from his house you will be reporting it to the police.

How would grandad with dementia get in?

Change the locks for the kind of locks that require a code to be supplied to get new keys cut - ABS or Uliton. Then take the code and don't give it to anyone else.

Also get a safe.

Who got house keys that can be copied? you need to get them done by Banham or similar, then they can't be copied except by the owner.

Despicable of them. I second, third, fourth (?) the lock that needs the code to copy, expensive but worth doing (asap!)

Even if you get the code-type keys couldn’t they just steal the grandad’s set?

The problem is they aren't just someone. They're relatives. He's letting them in. You would never prove the theft because theres no intention to permanently deprive him of the key. You would have to prove specific intent it was copied in order to steal. Youd never prove that . All you can do is safeguard. Put valuables in a safe. As others suggest change the keys to one that needs a code to get a copy cut. Only you keep the code so no one else can have one cut. The person who suggested they'd be "bang to rights" if something went missing during an 8 hour window, unless your grandfather saw them take it AND could give a statement to the police, you've no chance unless it's clearly caught on camera. That person clearly doesn't understand the law. Contact social services too, see what assistance they can offer.

I second Banham Keys. They can’t be cut by an ordinary locksmith, you have to get copies from Banham who will only cut them for the registered key holder. The other advantage is that, if needed you/ Banham can just replace the secure barrel rather than the entire mechanism. I may sound biased, but I had them in a previous flat because of a dodgy previous owner and Banhams security processes were very impressive.