AIBU to think NHS sickness recording is daft?

[summergreens]

So my NHS Trust like all of them thinks it has a problem with sickness absence and has the usual return to work / ongoing monitoring. Fair enough.

I'm rarely off sick so it mostly passes me by.

But I've discovered today that they are counting calendar days not working days when calculating absences.

I'm not paid to work Friday Saturday or Sunday, or Bank Holidays. Yet if I'm sick those days count towards sickness absence?

I'm worried that if I apply for another job the new employer will get a wrong idea.

For example if I was off off Tuesday & Wednesday with a bad cold is 2 days absent. But in my case if I'm off Thurs and back the following Tuesday that's still two working days missed, but the Trust records it as 5 days.

Am I wrong or are they?

As for what employers think, I think they are more concerned about frequency rather than length of sickness so it shouldn't cause any problems. In fact I think it's normally the odd days off eg a Monday or a Friday that would ring alarm bells for someone pulling a sickie.

But then if your not working on x days even though your still off ill then logically why are they counted,

ESR (payroll/hr system) works on the premise that everyone is available for work over a 7 day week, it does not record work patterns. All NHS trusts use this. You will be paid pro rata and any sickness triggers will be unique to the organisation you work for although there will be many commonalities between them for example some will look at frequency within a defined period, some the number of days absent within a defined period and some % absence or a combination of all or using the Bradford factor. Sickness absence has to be managed and it has rocketed since September 2020 across the board. Sick pay falls under national ts&cs however the management of absences are local decisions (policies). Whilst working days and hours may also be recorded, the standard ESR reports calculate absence on calendar days, this will have been in the original ESR contract laid out by central government. Other factors may be used locally in the managing of absence such as sickness %, hours lost or days lost. If you are ill for 2 weeks and work 1 day a week, you are still ill for 2 weeks. You will be paid your FTE regardless until you reach half or nil pay.

Thank you @AlexandraJJ that is interesting.

However the fact remains I'm not contracted to work 7 days a week I'm contracted to work 4. The IT system is in error with its assumptions.

If this is how the NHS counts absences ( and it seems it is, and some other employers do the same) then I accept that. I'm really grateful for everyone who has taken the time to explain.

My concern about what it then looks like to non-nhs employers remains though. I would strongly prefer to tell them about working days missed (for example I try so hard to rearrange appointments for Friday when I am not working).

What do you mean by a sickness entitlement? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

But it’s how all/most companies count absences, private ones too. It’s not just an NHS thing.

@summergreens job references shouldn't be asking for sick days....

Yes, they can. It’s quite a normal request. Employers don’t have to answer, though.

@Neverseenbefore no they shouldn't be asking because than you can claim disability discrimination.

People get ill, you shouldn't be asking how many sick days someone has taken.

I seem to be confusing people with this. I mean in NHS you have entitlement to paid time off for sickness. Eg if you are off sick you are still paid. This starts from 1 month full pay and 1 month half pay when you start and it goes up to a maximum of 6 months full 6 half when you have completed 5 years of service. Every employee gets the same entitlement whether they are full time or 15 hours a week. Hence when sickness is recorded it will record non working days and weekends etc. Sickness works on a rolling year so will depend on how much you have been off in that year for what you have remaining.

For clarity :

Scale of allowances

14.2 Employees absent from work owing to illness will be entitled, subject to the conditions of this agreement, to receive sick pay in accordance with the scale below (see Section 12 for provisions on reckonable service):

during the first year of service – one month’s full pay and two months’ half pay
during the second year of service – two months’ full pay and two months’ half pay
during the third year of service – four months’ full pay and four months’ half pay
during the fourth and fifth years of service – five months’ full pay and five months’ half pay
after completing five years of service – six months’ full pay and six months’ half pay.

Well, yes, that’s pretty standard - except for the six months’ paid sickness absence. I see now you mean paid sickness absence, not sickness entitlement, which would be something very different.

Well, they can ask, and do, and are completely entitled to ask. There’s no “shouldn’t” about it. There’s no disability discrimination. I speak as someone who is disabled.