AIBU to think that people shouldn't lose their livelihoods because of their government?

[Untern]

And that this is fucking insane?

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/04/russian-soprano-anna-netrebko-met-opera-russia

I kind of agree that individual artists shouldn’t really be affected by national politics. I do see there is a difference for say Eurovision or the Olympics.

During the height of the cold war, the vast majority of artists were not allowed to leave the Soviet Union. There were a few cultural exchanges, very few, and the Soviet participants were watched closely the whole time so they couldn't defect.

There is a massive difference between ordinary Russians going about their employment overseas, including many opera singers and dancers, and someone like Anna Nebretrenko who has used her considerable public profile and international fame to very publicly support Putin and his policies.

AIBU to think that people shouldn't lose their livelihoods because of their government?

Where were you during lockdown, when my business got shut down by the government, and I got zero financial help, despite paying all my taxes?

This is a full scale war not a cold war, it's something very different and as such the rules of engagement are very different.

That said, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in court.

I don't actually see why ordinary Russians should just be able to continue "business as usual". I don't suppose many western musicians are touring Russia right now.
The world's a big place. Im sure there are plenty of countries where she is free to work.

But yeah, wars interrupt personal plans and careers. Who knew?

Why not? My old music teacher and his wife were affected. Within weeks of the Russian invasion they'd lost their home, their jobs and (in her case) her country.

Why is it OK for a baker in Kherson to lose everything but not a Russian artiste?

That doesn't even make sense. People across the world are affected by war all the time.

When the UK invaded Iraq did you advocate for UK citizens to lose their jobs?

I opened this thread thinking it was about the hotel staff who have got the boot from hotels because said hotels are now housing asylum seekers

The UK wasn't subject to international sanctions. Russia is.

There aren't any general sanctions relating to employing or engaging Russian citizens in paid activities. What is happening here is completely outside that. She had a contractual agreement which didn't end when Russia invaded Ukraine.

Other artists are affected too. Many have had work cancelled and contracts withdrawn:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-lives-of-even-anti-putin-russian-artists-impossible/

Meh. Them's the breaks. She used her platform to espouse her causes, and those that would employ her are exercising their choice to deny her any further platform. She can go them for damages. I hope they pay.

People are losing their lives. Their homes. Their livelihoods. Their families. Their communities. Being tortured, kidnapped, and raped. Do you think that might be a little bit worse than not being paid to sing? That these kind of terrible experiences might be worth being a little bit punitive to those that support the regime inflicting these terrible things upon innocent people, including children? Any concern for them?

I think it's possible to be concerned about more than one thing. And also not to conflate a government with a people. Russian artists, musicians and dancers are not responsible for decisions that the Kremlin makes. Russia has always had a rich cultural life that we have had the benefit of being able to access, even in dark and conflicted times. I think it's bad for all of us if that is damaged, as well as being bad for the artists themselves, many of whom are as critical as they can be about russian foreign policy.

There is a lot of Rachmaninoff playing at the proms this year because it's his anniversary. He fled from Russia to Finland on a bloody sledge. What would our cultural landscape be like if European concert halls had refused to have him perform? Same with Shostakovich, who stayed throughout the Stalin years. If Europe had boycotted his music, don't you think we'd be missing a huge chunk of cultural input?

What are we missing out on now, with this hair brained cultural Puritanism?

Was it hare brained cultural Puritanism when sanctions were fiercely applied to South Africa?

Because they sure as eggs are eggs, helped to bring about an end to a deplorable regime.

I think it's most probably very hard for those that love the arts (or sports) to find that they must miss out because the bigger picture means that for the meantime, it's not open season for those from Russia.

Same here.

And guess what? I'm a professional musician. Nobody was interested in my livelihood during Covid.

I sort of agree with you, OP, in that the former Soviet Union is a complete basket case, and Russia is just currently the worst of it. I don't for a second believe that Ukraine is purer than the driven snow, though.

No, people shouldn't be prevented from earning a living because their views are inimical to other people. Anna N is hardly responsible for Russian politics, whether or not she has any sympathy with Putin.

Russian culture is magnificent, and Putin is a tiny little shit stain on it.

Sanctions against South Africa did barely any good at all LOL, even though they were in place for decades. Arguably they delayed the end of Apartheid which was largely down to internal forces.

The sanctions against Russia are ... patchy, at best. Some of the banking restrictions have made a difference. Others have done more harm to Europe than to Russia. Others still are frankly unworkable. Say no to Russian gas and oil? Ok good luck with that.

Plus, what is the point of just getting rid of Putin? Who is going to step into the position he's in? Nobody who you'd actually want to be in charge, that's for sure.

Plus again this cultural stuff isn't mediated by sanctions. It's just posturing, like all the halfwits who stopped selling vodka before they realised that any you get in the UK is made in bloody Poland.

@SirTain I agree that the entire ex Soviet region below the Baltics is pretty disastrous. Russia is awful but possibly not the absolute worst in that it keeps other potential flashpoints under control. It's the biggest though and does the most damage when it does anything at all. Ukraine ... probably was on its way to getting rid of zelensky before the war, certainly there was disatisfaction with him and his ill gotten funds. Would they have gone for someone more legit next? Possibly. Obviously by the bye now, and hopefully questions will be asked after his stint as Russia -provoking shill is over.

It’s not a war between the US and Russia (yet, and let’s hope that remains the case).

So you’re upset about 1 Russian singer when countless others have lost their livelihood by their own governments hands?

looks around… raise your hand if you lost your livelihood to Covid regulations… or because you happen to work in an industry that’s not climate friendly… or socially acceptable.

Why is this woman worthy of outrage?

It's possible to be bothered by both things (as I am). It doesn't have to be one or the other. I have a long posting history on here dating back to March 2020 of rage regarding lockdowns and its effects on people.

Yes it’s ridiculous and unfair.

Hah! Good luck with that, the majority of moralisers on MN are about as consistent as the British weather.

Every Russian should suffer due to the actions of Putin in Ukraine as long as it doesn't mildly inconvenienced me seems to be the general stance taken by the west. Hence the various loopholes and delays with regards to sanctions on Russia (Remeber Ukrainian lives were only worth saving once the rich had gotten their money out of harms way).

There's a distinct lack of mirrors in the house of western morals.