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AIBU?

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Landlord making deductions - can/how can I fight this?

22 replies

Goingcrazyimsure · 06/08/2023 21:51

So I'm going to try to keep this simple ...
We moved in in May - landlords live abroad and it was their family home before. They had their things removed and shipped and we moved in directly with no cleaning in-between. We accepted this as we wanted a quick moving date.
House was filthy when we moved in. Walls were very very marked and grimy and we had to clean significantly. There were chips and marks and scratches everywhere which were not really noticeable when we viewed the property with furniture in. We accepted this as the state of the house as we figured we had viewed it as it was and agreed so we just had to suck it up. We cleaned it as best we could. The appliances etc. were all fine. They conducted an entry report but this was a few weeks after we moved in (so all our furniture was in) and we didn't receive this report until November and that was by WhatsApp. It was not uploaded onto our tenancy account until March this year. We had an increasingly serious rising damp issue which we alerted the landlords to and they sent out several people over several months to assess the damp but they were unable to find someone 'who wasn't going to charge them a fortune' so it was never resolved and continued to worsen. They were aware we have asthma in the house etc. Nothing was done. This was in January/Feb and we moved out in July - the damp was still severe. We cleaned the house to a significantly higher standard to what it was when we moved in and did our best to make us as nice for the new tenants as possible. The landlords left one day between tenants and conducted an exit report on that day. This exit report was obviously on an empty house as opposed to a full one when we moved in. We were not sent a copy of this report until yesterday (2 weeks since we moved) when I said I wanted to check deductions they said they wanted to make. They are planning to charge us for painting the house (or some of it) because of all the marks left on the wall - none of which (except possibly 1 which is washable) were ours! The photos on the exit report don't show these marks and they are using photos sent to them from the new tenants who are I assume quite rightly pissed off at the state of the house. I wish I had challenged the state of it when we moved in but essentially none of these marks seems to be shown in either report ... Can they charge us?! Surely they have no proof these marks were made by us and not the new tenants if they are not recorded on the exit report? I am so enraged as we really did leave it in a much better state than we found it and I feel like they just want us to foot the bill for their much needed repaint 😡 AIBU to expect to be able to fight this and not have to pay for this?

OP posts:
PragmaticWench · 06/08/2023 21:55

I presume your deposit is held in an official scheme? The landlords should present their evidence and requests for deductions to the scheme.

TeaKitten · 06/08/2023 21:55

You can fight it through the deposit protection scheme, if you and your landlord can’t agree then they will decide what’s fair based on the evidence provided and what’s considered fair wear and tare.

Doggymummar · 06/08/2023 21:56

You are supposed to send photos and a written report when you move in. We had a 45 defect report we sent to letting agency. We moved in during COVID lockdown so didn't go round with the agent. I think you will have to suck it up unfortunately.

Knnniggets · 06/08/2023 21:56

Did you take photos when you moved in? Also as far as I am aware if both sides don’t agree to the deductions, the deposit will just sit there (provided it’s in the deposit protection scheme).

MadeForThis · 06/08/2023 21:57

They need to prove the condition of the property when you moved in. If they don't have photos of the walls without marks then they cannot hold you responsible.

Rachie1973 · 06/08/2023 21:59

If it’s in a TDS scheme (which it should be, that’s the law) just argue it.

unless they have the before photos etc they’ll lose.

caringcarer · 06/08/2023 21:59

I know it's too late for this time but always take photos of condition house was in on moving in day. Get date stamped photos.

cansu · 06/08/2023 22:04

I had a very similar experience. Dispute it with the deposit scheme. I learnt a lesson. I did similar to you accepted the dirty state and took them at face value. They were all relaxed when we moved in brushing any issues off. When we moved out they were looking for us to redecorate the whole house even though it hadn't been touched in 20 years.

PragmaticWench · 06/08/2023 22:15

Doggymummar · 06/08/2023 21:56

You are supposed to send photos and a written report when you move in. We had a 45 defect report we sent to letting agency. We moved in during COVID lockdown so didn't go round with the agent. I think you will have to suck it up unfortunately.

No, it's the opposite. If the landlord doesn't have dated evidence from a inspections before and after the tenancy then they can't deduct from the deposit.

Goingcrazyimsure · 06/08/2023 22:30

Ok this is really helpful thanks! I will take it up with the deposit protection scheme. So is it true that I will have to agree the deductions too before they release it? I will definitely be taking photos next time - we were way too trusting. I thought they were decent people and on a level - but clearly we were wrong!

OP posts:
Goingcrazyimsure · 06/08/2023 22:33

PragmaticWench · 06/08/2023 22:15

No, it's the opposite. If the landlord doesn't have dated evidence from a inspections before and after the tenancy then they can't deduct from the deposit.

Yes they don't have anything from before the tenancy only a few weeks in and not given to us to agree on for 6 months. Also the marks they show us are from the current tenant's photos and not the exit report so surely they can't be used to prove anything?

OP posts:
WiddlinDiddlin · 06/08/2023 22:36

Give the TDS a timeline of all of this.

What happened - your general view of the place when you got there - who sent what when.

Remind them of fair wear and tear.

The fact that the 'after' pics are supplied by the new tenant, not by them goes in your favour, but the fact you did not raise the existing issues when you moved in doesn't help you, lesson learned there unfortunately.

It doesn't sound as if the landlord has a case though and theres far more for them to lose by trying to unfairly deduct/keep your deposit than there is for you to argue it.

CarPour · 06/08/2023 22:40

Take it to the deposit protection scheme

It's up to them to prove you did the damage

Sounds like they haven't got an inventory before you moved in, and the damage isn't recorded on the exit report. There's nothing to prove that wasn't done by the existing tenants, and you usually have to sign both the move in inventory and exit report to say you agree.

In future yes it's helpful to have photos on move in, but ultimately it sounds like they have no evidence you did that damage to the property

Goingcrazyimsure · 07/08/2023 06:57

Thank you everyone. Yes we certainly didn't sign anything. We will challenge through the DPS and hopefully this will be accepted. 🤞😊

OP posts:
ButDoYouAvocado · 07/08/2023 07:18

I’ve had this happen to me 5 times and 5 times I received my entire deposit back. I’ve bought now thank god. My favourite was the landlady who left me a note on entry saying ‘sorry for the state of the oven, I started cleaning it then lost the will to live’ - and wanted to charge us for cleaning when we left 🤣

They need to be able to prove that the marks weren’t already there as PP have stated. It’s on them not you. Sorry you’re going through this it’s very stressful.

topnoddy · 07/08/2023 07:33

Paragraphs ?
One long rant makes it hard to read .

Saracen · 07/08/2023 07:44

As others have said, the deposit scheme will certainly find in your favour and you'll get your deposit back, because the landlord doesn't have timely photos or inventory indicating the walls were in good condition when you moved in.

For future reference, it is quite possible to have a friendly breezy undemanding approach while still protecting your rights. I recommended something similar to my DC, who was delighted to be offered a flat at a good rate in an area with a terrible shortage of rental properties, despite being a student. DC and their flatmate wanted to make themselves as attractive tenants as possible in hopes of staying on for several years. There were a lot of really minor issues when they moved in, most of which they were perfectly happy to live with, but they did need to document them in order to ensure they didn't get charged when they left.

I pointed out to DC that sending the LL this list would make DC look good (caring about the state of the property, attention to detail) and actually was doing the absentee LL a favour too by alerting them to the fact there are a number of things they might need to sort before renting it to somebody else. I suggested a letter like this:

"Hi LL, just for your records, here's a list of minor issues we've noticed on moving in:
some slats in the blind have been replaced with ones of a different colour
stain on bedroom carpet
(etc)
See attached photos.

None of the above needs fixing for us.

The only thing which does need sorting is the bedroom window which doesn't shut properly. Not a security issue so it isn't urgent, but we'd like it fixed before the weather gets cold."

Doggymummar · 07/08/2023 08:11

That's good to know, thank you

ostwest · 07/08/2023 08:17

If the Landlord has no photos of the 'before' and 'after', he has no basis to deduct from the deposit. Argue your case. Write to the landlord and the deposit scheme. It would have been helpful to have pictures of your own, but the onus is on the landlord to prove damages.
The landlord might have not seen all of the stains themselves: we have recently moved and, while all our things were there, the house looked reasonable. When I came back to an empty house, it became clear that we needed to repaint it before a tenant moved in.

studentgrant · 07/08/2023 09:18

Use the deposit protection scheme. I did for ds, when he was at uni, and the landlord backed off when I even suggested it.

Goingcrazyimsure · 07/08/2023 10:37

Thanks all!

Yes I should have been more assertive when we moved in but sadly we moved in in the middle of a bit of a housing crisis and I was just so relieved not to be trapped in our cladded (so unable to sell) one bed flat with two small children anymore that I think I just let it go 😩 Lesson learned!

I will definitely go via the deposit scheme - I have replied to the landlord explaining the situation but they have not got back to us so I will go ahead with the dispute. I am happy to pay for the two things that are our responsibility but nothing else. I'm hoping this shows I am reasonable.

X

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 07/08/2023 12:26

Ignore communications from the ll and communicate solely with the TDS, telling them what you have said on here.

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