Family think we should be tougher and shout more

[bedu]

At my DS, 3 and a half. For having tantrums sometimes.

The tantrums are generally better than they were a year ago. But it still happens. For example when he can't get his way, he sometimes cries and throws himself on the floor for a bit occasionally. Or when he is having lots of fun and it finishes, he struggles not to lose his temper in those situations.

It's better, but it still happens.

Everyone in my family just thinks he's naughty now and needs a good bollocking for doing it. Literally, that's what they think.

Personally I have been taking a more gentle approach all along. Shouting makes it last longer and doesn't seem to help really. I always tried the ' I know you're frustrated we need to leave now. You were having fun and now we need to go and it's making you feel sad '.. kind of technique. I can't say it's been a huge success. But on average the tantrums are shorter than if you stand there shouting and making them more upset. I also just don't like shouting that much.

What does everyone else think ?

I either laugh (which sometimes works by getting her to laugh too) or just let her get it all out and wait until she wants a hug. It would never occur to me to shout. If we need to leave I'll pick her up and carry her, but she'll want down and walk nicely soon enough.

This too will pass.

When a child has lost control of their emotions, they can't process additional information. They won't understand what they're getting dropped at for so it teaches them nothing.
It might scare them enough to shut them down, so they go quiet, this addresses the visible symptoms of their emotional overwhelm but teachers them nothing in terms of self awareness, or emotional control.
In fact you're modelling losing emotional control.

Being calm, removing triggers, dialling down stimulus and then, soothing when things are better. Finally when child is able to think again, a little chat about what just happened helps them process what's gone on (you got angry because you could have the xyz, next time maybe tell mummy what you need... Etc etc type thing), means that gradually they learn to self manage, recognise what the issues are and how to handle it better ..

I've been doing this kind of thing with my kids for over a decade, they have emotional literacy, know when they need to step away from something, can articulate what their problems are before they get to breaking point...

I have died say them, but not as a behaviour management strategy, when I've been overwhelmed... It's never achieved a thing that's useful... Not surprising as shooting is just an emotional storm, not pleasant for anyone and something you just withstand until it passes through... Doesn't teach anyone anything with knowing as a deliberate policy. It might teach your kid to be wary and mask to avoid triggering you .. it won't make them any wiser.

Sorry for typos. Hope you can make sense

You don't need to shout but
a) are you using a firm tone of voice?
b) are you ensuring you are not pleading or cajoling
c) if the consequences you are applying aren't resulting in a reduction in tantrum behaviour, try different consequences.

For example a child might have a tantrum at a soft play. They might actually be quite overwhelmed there, and subconsciously be quite happy to leave. So being taken home won't be a deterrent to tantrumming, as its actually rewarded the behaviour.

Also, you don't need to shout. But its ok to show your child a degree of your own emotions. They need to learn to live in society, and learn to recognise that doing annoying, silly, anti social behaviour will upset/frustrate/anger the people around them.

Eg if your child is angry and smashes an item if yours, its ok to tell them you are sad, disappointed and even a little angry about what's happened.

Giving children the impression that whatever they do, they can do no wrong and no one will ever be upset with them no matter how selfish or careless or thoughtless they are, does not make for good adults.

A firm no-nonsense tone and a choice of "you can choose to hold my hand or you can choose to be carried which would you like?"

"If you're choosing to carry on playing then you are also choosing to be carried out"

"Time to go. I'm going to carry you because you aren't doing what you need to do right now".

Was my go-to. You want to teach self regulation rather than obedience/compliance.

It's a longer road to fix tantrums but it's brilliant for me now my youngest is 4.5. He has better self regulation skills than some adults I know!

If the tantrums are happening when you're leaving places then it might be that transitions are hard. You could try "pick your last 3 things you want to go on", "shall we take a last picture of the slide you went on to show Nanny/Daddy/the dog how brave you were when we get home?" 5 minutes is abstract, "3 goes" is much more solid, talking about "when we get home" sets the kid up for leaving.

They mirror back what you do so shouting to stop shouting is pointless. I think once a tantrum is underway they're also on an unstoppable hormone rollercoaster and there's not much point doing anything other than being kind and calm and reiterating whatever boundary they're kicking off about.

Is this always at family events? If you can anticipate and prevent tantrums that's easier - can you take DC for a run around before going there to use up energy, or bring stickers or colouring for a bit of quiet time, or take DC for a walk round the block for a bit of peace? Family gatherings can be emotionally overwhelming for adults, let alone kids. You basically want a child equivalent of the crate a dog can hide in when it all gets too much.

Previous generations took parenting much less seriously and think we're all a pious lot. There's probably a happy medium but showing empathy and kindness is never a bad thing.

You want to teach self regulation rather than obedience/compliance

Well no, you actually need to teach both.

Most children and adults have to do things they quite simply do not want to do. It's like. Any teacher will beg you to instil some obedience/compliance in your child as well as self regulation.

Well you shouldn’t be shouting at them as it’s only going to terrify them and stop them from trusting you. And you shouldn’t be trying to rationalise with them either. What works for me is promising them with something they want

Also making sure they have enough to eat and drink - family things can involve delays on food, sugar and junk, not enough to drink etc.

Basically focusing on those basic needs for rest, exercise, drink, food, sleep etc can work and it's easy to overlook in a busy atmosphere.

That's fine what you're doing.

Seriously as long as your not one of those RIDICULOUS parents that sit there for ages while there child whines on and panders to it emotionally your fine it will pass

(Extreme example)
Lady and gentleman at the checkout till "waiting out" there child wasn't having a meltdown wasn't particularly having a tantrum but mum was virtually in fucking tears "I know darling but it has to be done im soo sorry 😢 it won't take a moment please sweetheart" he was chiming in "it's OK it's OK it will be over soon" a toy, they needed to scan his FUCKING TOY so he could have it

They opened another till in the end

There's an old but good book called " How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. I found it really useful when my DD were young.

But that is literally emotional regulation, no?
Overriding your "urgh fuck this no thanks" response to a scary exam, uncomfortable smear test, doing 20mph in a road that feels like it should really be a 60mph one, not punching some mouthy twat in the face.

You also don't want to be the adult that follows rules unquestionably out of fear- the iffy doctor that asks you to do something that makes you uncomfortable, the "can you sign this form, it'll be ok" types at work, the doctor says to go home and take 2 paracetamol and see if the chest pain goes away...

Automatic compliance isn't good at all.

(And my kids teachers are very happy with their conduct, the eldest even won a trophy for their behaviour last term and is now "school ambassador"! So proud haha 😂)

Honestly, what you’re doing sounds fine. Don’t indulge the tantrum or pander to it. Just silently remove them from the situation, if you can explain to them why you have done it, great. If they are crying so much they won’t take it in don’t. Be calm and firm. I always went with, I can see why you’re upset but what you’re doing is upsetting for you and everyone around you. We’ll go home or sit in the car until you’re ready to go back. No more discussion just hugs when they need it. The only time I’ve ever used my ‘shouty voice’ (intentionally, I’m not perfect) was if they in danger or at risk of hurting others.

You can be firm without shouting.
I don't think I've ever really shouted at my children but I have spoken to them in a really stern way and talked to them about why they shouldn't be behaving badly.
One thing I can't stand is parents who shout when their child does something dangerous like run across the road. I've always explained in detail to my children why they shouldn't run across roads by telling them that they would get squashed flat and die. My sister thinks it's barbaric to tell my children this when they were young, but her response it to shout obscenities instead and it's never worked for her. Why would you should without actually explaining why you don't want them to do something.

YES

This is what so many people miss. Child has a tantrum in softplay, parent tries to cajole and has multiple king 'oh mummy knows the awful boy pushed you, that's frustrating isn't it' type conversations.

If your child is repeatedly getting overwhelmed to the point where they are having long screaming tantrums, you need to get to watch them for cues that they are getting overwhelmed and get them out of that situation before the tantrum occurs. That might be before their cousins of the same age. Every child is different.

No need to shout, but a death stare and a hissed 'Get off the ground now' Should be in your repertoire. No one wants to suffer your childs tantrum so you need to have something in your arsenal to stop it in short order.

Agree. I might be helping my children develop their emotional language and understanding, but I'm still boss, they are happier with an adult at the helm and back when they were little, quiet removal, then calm down and cuddle and chat was the way forward.
Not shouting, does not have to equal centering their volatile emotions above any other immediate considerations! It means leading the way.

There's not actually anything wrong with a toddler having a tantrum.

They're developmentally normal.

Yes they can be unpleasant to hear but your child having a tantrum is no reflection on your parenting whatsoever. They're expressing their upset. Often it's a basic need not being met. My child was often thirsty, cold, hot, tired, overwhelmed.

What would be bad parenting IMO is to give to child something they are demanding through the tantrum that you've already said no to (aka showing tantrums work), or to punish the child for doing something developmentally normal.

I’m guessing you probably grew up in a shouty house? Do you feel yourself getting hot/anxious when he starts having a meltdown? That could be your programming that negative emotions are not allowed and your fear instinct is triggered because your waiting for the shouting (see Phillips Perry!).

Add that onto normal being frustrated with a stubborn toddler and it’s a recipe for losing one’s shit.

Maybe think about what actually happens when you’re doing a time out. Does he get put in time out once he’s lost it? Are you calmly telling him what’s happening or is he being bundled onto the step etc? Think about it from his position. He’s a megalomaniac 3 yr old. He wants chocolate. You say no, it’s dinner time. He doesn’t want dinner, he wants chocolate. Now. He has no concept of time or what a sensible meal is. He just wants chocolate…NOW…and you for some unfathomable reason won’t let him have any. He then finds himself feeling really angry and that makes him scared because he hasn’t learnt what feelings are. If he’s bundled away to timeout, his negative feelings towards anger are reinforced, he needs comfort and certainty that everything is ok even though he feels horrible but doesn’t get it and then he’s given a whole bunch of information to process about why he’s been”bad”.

If you can, diffuse the emotional temperature (which can be blooming difficult) and let him see that being cross is ok and that nothing bad happens. Have a look at time-in. Give him space to meltdown, let him know you’re there if he wants a cuddle, talk him through what he’s feeling and most importantly, always talk about the behaviour you want away from a meltdown.

Oh, and ignore your family! Do you want your child to be scared of you? How do you feel when you’re scared and do you want that for DC?

I'm a foster carer.

We had one particular toddler who had horrendous violent tantrums that would last over 30 minutes.

We were advised by social workers to make sure she was safe, not make eye contact, not engage in conversation and then turn our back on her.

This would mean she wasn't getting attention for the tantrums and got our attention when they stopped.

This sounds like tough love but it worked well.