Page 2 | Help- missing husband and debt

Bobby80 · 2023-08-06T09:09:18+00:00

I’m swinging from being broken to furious and back again but right now I need to draw on people who have more knowledge/experience than me. Been married for 12 years. 2 children. DH has always had an unhealthy relationship with drink but it kind of sat within social norms if that makes sense. Recently the balance has tipped as he’s been taking binges that last a few days. The pattern is - disappear for 2 days binge drinking. Reappear, be broken and remorseful, stop drinking for 6-8 months. And repeat. Fast forward to now. He’s not been seen or contactable since first thing on Fri. I’ve made the commitment to separate. Told friends. Moved all his stuff into the garage. Locks changed. The house is in my name. I can afford it (just) on my wage. I have no debt. I dealt with all finances through my account and he would pay X amount in to me. No joint accounts. No joint debt. My question is- he has debt. When we separate will I be liable for any of it? My emotions around his behaviour/out children/separation etc have to be put to one side just now so I can be practical in my planning.

POWL01 · 06/08/2023 11:10

Just be sure he hasn't added your name or forged your signature, do you know for sure the debt is in his name only? Also I know you said he won't go after the house but people (men) will often change when they realise you're serious about separation so don't rely on this you need to be prepared for him trying to get the money out of it, especially if he has debt/limited options x

NeedToChangeName · 06/08/2023 11:14

Posters who confidently state that all assets will be split 50 50 might like to bear in mind that OP lives in Scotland

Spoiler alert = English law does not apply in Scotland

In Scotland, if OP owned the house before the marriage, that could make a big difference...

NeedToChangeName · 06/08/2023 11:16

@LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood my comment was not directed at you, by the way!

NeedToChangeName · 06/08/2023 11:25

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:04

The debts were for his own purpose and as we’ve always had separate accounts I’m confident I can evidence this.

Show quote history

@Bobby80 I think you are confusing two separate issues

DH has a credit card bill. You are not obliged to pay this. Credit card company cannot pursue you

But...

When you and DH are identifying the nature and extent of matrimonial property, his debt will be taken into account eg X (assets) less Y (debts) = Z (value of matrimonial property, for the purposes of negotiating who gets what)

Or, to put it another way -

Are you obliged to pay his debt on his behalf? No

Could his debt result in you coming away from this with less £ than if he had no debt? Yes

Dashel · 06/08/2023 11:26

Have you credit checked yourself just to be sure there is nothing in your name? My friends dad forged her mum’s signature on all sorts.

I would do a free check just to be cautious

Original poster

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:26

NeedToChangeName · 06/08/2023 11:14

Posters who confidently state that all assets will be split 50 50 might like to bear in mind that OP lives in Scotland

Spoiler alert = English law does not apply in Scotland

In Scotland, if OP owned the house before the marriage, that could make a big difference...

Yes I owned the house before we met. The deposit was 100% mine and every payment has come from an account in my sole name. All associated household bills etc are in my name and paid from my account.

Again, I’m less worried about the house as I have very good reason to know he would be highly, highly unlikely to stake a claim.

OP posts:

NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/08/2023 11:30

His debts are his problem. The result of him not paying them could be that you are contacted, but as he's not there (get him off any utilities or tax/benefits right away), they can't pursue you for them. And if he has taken out credit fraudulently in your name, you report it, keeping evidence.

vivainsomnia · 06/08/2023 11:36

The fact the debt is on a credit card in his nam doesn't make it not a share debt under matrimonial law. Just like the house under your name only doesn't jean he isn't entitled to a share.

What you'd need to evidence is nothing was bought to benefit the family. So no holidays, household furniture, food shopping etc....but that it was all for his sole benefit only.

gogomoto · 06/08/2023 11:41

Getting a financial separation order (check proper term in Scotland) asap is wise, it means any debts run up from now on are not your problem. The debts from during the marriage and the house are trickier and I wouldn't make any promises either way to you as so much depends on whether he walks away knowing he's done wrong and doesn't seek anything or whether he wants to fight for a percentage of marital assets

BarbaraofSeville · 06/08/2023 11:43

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:26

Yes I owned the house before we met. The deposit was 100% mine and every payment has come from an account in my sole name. All associated household bills etc are in my name and paid from my account.

Again, I’m less worried about the house as I have very good reason to know he would be highly, highly unlikely to stake a claim.

Show quote history

So it could be argued that the money he gave you didn't earn him any share of your assets, but was a contribution towards his ongoing share of food, electric, DC costs etc?

The other factor in your favour is that presumably the DC will remain living with you so he should be contributing towards their housing, food, clothes etc. It also doesn't sound like he can use the argument that he's done more childcare and fallen behind you career and pension-wise so you owe him for that. So there doesn't seem to be any reason why you'd need to give him anything?

Original poster

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:46

BarbaraofSeville · 06/08/2023 11:43

So it could be argued that the money he gave you didn't earn him any share of your assets, but was a contribution towards his ongoing share of food, electric, DC costs etc?

The other factor in your favour is that presumably the DC will remain living with you so he should be contributing towards their housing, food, clothes etc. It also doesn't sound like he can use the argument that he's done more childcare and fallen behind you career and pension-wise so you owe him for that. So there doesn't seem to be any reason why you'd need to give him anything?

Show quote history

When tallied up his X contribution is half of DC costs, food, council tax and utilities.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:47

vivainsomnia · 06/08/2023 11:36

The fact the debt is on a credit card in his nam doesn't make it not a share debt under matrimonial law. Just like the house under your name only doesn't jean he isn't entitled to a share.

What you'd need to evidence is nothing was bought to benefit the family. So no holidays, household furniture, food shopping etc....but that it was all for his sole benefit only.

Absolutely nothing was of benefit to me personally or the wider family and I can evidence this.

OP posts:

coffeestrongblacknosugar · 06/08/2023 11:49

I am in Scotland and purchased my house before I got married for the 2nd time. My partner (now husband) signed a document saying he had no claim on the house, it was 100% my deposit and mortgage before he moved in when I was purchasing this house.

As for debt, if you can show that it is his then you shouldn't be liable. When I divorced my ex (1st husband) he had substantial debt that I knew zero about and I didn't have to pay toward it - again Scottish law.

I wish you well OP.

Original poster

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:50

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:46

When tallied up his X contribution is half of DC costs, food, council tax and utilities.

Show quote history

And there is no case he lost out due to DC. I used my savings to take extended Mat. Leave. His contributions to running of the house did not increase over this time.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 11:52

coffeestrongblacknosugar · 06/08/2023 11:49

I am in Scotland and purchased my house before I got married for the 2nd time. My partner (now husband) signed a document saying he had no claim on the house, it was 100% my deposit and mortgage before he moved in when I was purchasing this house.

As for debt, if you can show that it is his then you shouldn't be liable. When I divorced my ex (1st husband) he had substantial debt that I knew zero about and I didn't have to pay toward it - again Scottish law.

I wish you well OP.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

OP posts:

Appleofmyeye2023 · 06/08/2023 11:56

123ZYX · 06/08/2023 10:13

If you're married, the house being in your name will be meaningless. All assets and liabilities will be considered together. Starting point of a 50:50 split, although the need to house children will be taken into account (plus each party's ability to support themself)

No. The starting point is NOT 50:50. Stop proliferating this misunderstanding that comes up again and again on MN

the starting point is the marriage act. And that starts with “fair settlement “. Where there are enough funds then it moves to 50:50 , but where there aren’t enough funds to meet “fair settlement “ criteria (around 10 of them) , those will ALWAYS take precedent.

Even if you go the route of an amicable consent order, the court can still refuse to “seal “ it if they deem it does not satisfy “fair settlement “. Head over to divorce board if you don’t believe me - plenty of post on where court has atclas5 asked for further clarification where not meeting criteria, or has actually rejected and refused to seal.

Cherrysoup · 06/08/2023 11:56

Good for you to make the decision. It can’t continue like this, what a mad thing for him to do!

Appleofmyeye2023 · 06/08/2023 11:58

NeedToChangeName · 06/08/2023 11:14

Posters who confidently state that all assets will be split 50 50 might like to bear in mind that OP lives in Scotland

Spoiler alert = English law does not apply in Scotland

In Scotland, if OP owned the house before the marriage, that could make a big difference...

It isn’t even true to England or wales anyway.
“fair settlement” is starting point - I keep saying this but the myth perpetuates 🙄

Mythicalcreatures · 06/08/2023 12:00

When I divorced in Scotland, my ex got his debts, I kept my house ( bought before we met and I paid all bills), my money and my pension. Sounds similar situation to yours, ex didn't contribute and went missing on benders. Divorce best thing I ever did. Divorce cost about £1200, 12 years ago

Original poster

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 12:01

Mythicalcreatures · 06/08/2023 12:00

When I divorced in Scotland, my ex got his debts, I kept my house ( bought before we met and I paid all bills), my money and my pension. Sounds similar situation to yours, ex didn't contribute and went missing on benders. Divorce best thing I ever did. Divorce cost about £1200, 12 years ago

This mirrors my case exactly. Thank you for sharing and well done for getting out.

OP posts:

HappilyContentTheseDays · 06/08/2023 12:02

No, you are not liable for his debts.
When I divorced, I was the one who had debts. I never expected my husband to have to pay anything towards them in the first case, but I can assure you, no, they will not be included in the split of assets/payments.

As long as (like other pp have said) your name isn't on any debts, that you aren't guarantor in any of them and your signature hasn't been forged unbeknown to you. Sometimes debt companies, in desperation, try to convince the wife/parent/surviving relatives that they have some obligation to pay off debts but this isn't so and you cannot be forced to in law. Stand firm if you start getting calls from companies on your husband's behalf.

However, do make sure he hasn't racked up a debt with a charge on the house. I had a friend who went through divorce and found one of her husbands debts had included using the family home as security; like you, the home was in her name only but he'd managed to forge her signature on some document. She then had to raise money to get rid of that debt....do check everything.

Appleofmyeye2023 · 06/08/2023 12:05

Bobby80 · 06/08/2023 10:25

For a few reasons I don’t want to explain on a forum I know he won’t ask for half the house.

What I’m more concerned about is can I be forced to pay debts taken out on his name? They aren’t joint or secured against the house (to my knowledge, unless this can be done without the homeowner’s permission).

OP, repost on divorce board . AIBU is not really the place for this specific question re debt liabiblty

BUT before you post, go to the link at the top of that board to “ADVICE NOW” web site. Download their guides. Read up on how divorce works, financial agreements wrt to the legal financial disclosures (from E and D81) and financial agreements with respect to “fair settlement”. If you’re in Scotland I’m sure there’s the equivalent site for Scottish law.

unfortunately past behaviour is not part of fair settlement - the law only looks at future needs.

also, as you’re married your spouse can put a claim on the house. Be careful about lock changing and booting him out- you could be on wrong side of the law . You definitely would be if you were joint tenants or in common. If he has or will put a claim on house you still might be . Go to land registry and put an alert on your deeds so you know if ANYONE is trying to access them to look at etc. it won’t stop his claim, but you’d get advance warning he’s doing this. If you’re married in England or wales can you’ll have difficulty preventing such a claim

Appleofmyeye2023 · 06/08/2023 12:11

HappilyContentTheseDays · 06/08/2023 12:02

No, you are not liable for his debts.
When I divorced, I was the one who had debts. I never expected my husband to have to pay anything towards them in the first case, but I can assure you, no, they will not be included in the split of assets/payments.

As long as (like other pp have said) your name isn't on any debts, that you aren't guarantor in any of them and your signature hasn't been forged unbeknown to you. Sometimes debt companies, in desperation, try to convince the wife/parent/surviving relatives that they have some obligation to pay off debts but this isn't so and you cannot be forced to in law. Stand firm if you start getting calls from companies on your husband's behalf.

However, do make sure he hasn't racked up a debt with a charge on the house. I had a friend who went through divorce and found one of her husbands debts had included using the family home as security; like you, the home was in her name only but he'd managed to forge her signature on some document. She then had to raise money to get rid of that debt....do check everything.

I think OP is better by looking on line than a poster on MN
https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/am-i-responsible-for-my-exs-debt-following-a-divorce/
Scottish law may be different, but in England and wales, ALL debts are put on financial declaration and deducted from assets.

only way this would be avoided would be if she could

agree with spouse that he would take debts on solely
or, she could show debts had been taken out to cover things she and household did not benefit form at all. And that would be a costly legal process , if he didn’t agree, that could easily cost her more than 50% of the debt and months of delay in divorce process. Solicitors cost £200+ per hour so it doesn’t take much more than explaining the situation, let alone for letters or mediation to start running up £1000s of fees.

Am I Responsible For My Ex's Debt Following a Divorce?

Considering that the average household financial debt in the UK (excluding mortgages) is almost £10,000, it is important to consider how any debts will be treated upon separation. Working out…

https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/am-i-responsible-for-my-exs-debt-following-a-divorce/

JudgeRudy · 06/08/2023 12:11

Well done you for making this tough decision. It can't have been easy but it sounds like you've been more than supportive/tolerant. Unfortunately it's not enough.It's an old saying but you really can't change anyone else's behaviour, just the way you react to it. Enough is enough.
As for finances unfortunately as you're married they will be interwined. Id think he has an interest in the home you share unless it has been ringfenced prior to marriage. You might need to buy him out or work out some agreement where you make a clean break in lieu of child support. I believe you cant legally exclude him from the home so id be using this time to set up a spy camera in case he tries to return whilst your out. Tell noone! Get copies of everything from his NI and bank details to his car reg and passport details. I might even alert the Police and repirt him as a missing person.
You need proper legal advice though, not guesses from random posters on MN. You also need to take care of your own mental welkbeing. If that means wasting money on prepped meals, taxis, trip out etc so he it. Id bet a penny to a pound your friends/relatives will be delighted to support you if they believe you'll go through with it this time. Sounds like the time is now!

ADHDDDDDDDBOOM · 06/08/2023 12:14

OP I was in a similar position a few years back when DH and I were going through a rough patch.

I put a post on here for advice and later I booked an appointment with a solicitor.

One thing I learned from the solicitor was that the people giving legal advice to me on MN were very very wrong.

So please see someone who really knows.
Good luck.