Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Close friends relationship driving me mad!

49 replies

notagolddigger · 05/08/2023 02:56

Emma 25 and Luke 23 have been together coming on to three years. They have more or less lived together since they started their relationship and recently adopted two cats. This is Emma’s first relationship.

When they first started texting, Emma & I were out for food and as was Luke and another female (arrived after us and were sitting in close proximity). Both Emma & I knew they were on a date but Luke tried to deny this and say it was his sister. Luke would often go on dates while Emma was waiting at his home (they weren’t exclusive). Luke lived with Emma’s friends and she had easy access to his accommodation and took full advantage of this. He previously lived in a student estate before moving in with her friends and Emma would occasionally drive by his house to see if the lights were on. I didn’t agree with a lot of Emma’s behaviours and also thought Luke was making a complete mug out of her & we ended up falling out for just shy of a year because of my opinion.

A year on, Emma sends me a big text apologising and stated that while I was right about “absolutely everything”, Emma and Luke were now officially a couple doing great and even lived together. Of course, I took this for face value and accepted her apology as I only had her best interests at heart and we decided to repair our friendship.

NOTHING. HAS. CHANGED!

Emma & Luke aren’t right for each other but I learned the hard way that it is absolutely not my place to say or voice this. When we initially rekindled our friendship, Emma said Luke was texting a then married woman behind her back and she only found out because she checked his spare phone. Of course, Luke was not at fault and Emma decided to message a really degrading message to the woman. The woman wrote back and provided the receipts that while they were never physically intimate or even met outside of the gym, Luke reached out to her first and never mentioned once having a girlfriend. She was absolutely right and even from Luke’s message perspective (I was shown screenshots), everything aligned with what the woman had explained but Emma had love goggles on and couldn’t (still can’t) see this. To date, Luke still hasn’t posted any pictures of Emma on his social media & only reshared a couples picture once to his story.

Emma & Luke recently returned from their first holiday together, and the reason why they haven’t gone away abroad together before this was because Luke prioritises work and would prefer to take team trips than couple trips. Emma has stated gojng to all of Luke’s team games and practices to spend more time with him because she would “otherwise not get to see him”. Luke rarely supports or attends any of Emma’s work events & when Emma invites Luke, he gets defensive and tries to say that Emma plans every “free hour of his life”. For context, Emma works in the music/event sector and is frequently put up in hotels with food provided (all paid) with all access entry to the events she orchestrated, it’s not like she’s inviting Luke to a boring conference!

For the past month, they have just been arguing 25/8 and I am exhausted listening to Emma talk about it! Last night they had an argument over Luke’s female friend who lives with them but was agreed that it would only be temporary until she finds a new apartment to rent. Two months later, it is apparent that this friend has no intentions of moving and causes a lot of issues between them. Luke decided to tell Emma he needed space for the evening and when they discussed it that night, Luke decided to personally attack Emma’s character and state that she’s the problem (within their living accomdation) and that her attitude stinks. He said that Emma rarely goes and does things without him and reiterated how she tries to plan every hour free of his, and then said he felt like he was settling. He said that some days he decides to leave the house early so he’s not there when she comes home because he can’t bare to see her straight away.

Of course, I wiped Emma’s tears, and decided to finally voice my opinion and say that this was not acceptable behaviour but really upsetting to hear as her friend. She then got upset with me. While she agreed, she decided to buy him a card and write a handwritten love note to apologize and that she was willing to squash this and move on. LIKE, WHAT? Luke is Emma’s first boyfriend and even if he cheated on her, she wouldn’t leave, but Luke’s clearly unhappy and not content with their relationship & I can’t understand why he won’t breakup with Emma.

I feel emotionally drained from listening to how dysfunctional they are in day in and day out but Emma & I have only grown closer and I would hate to lose our friendship again. I have tried to set boundaries in place where we agree to not discuss Luke as she’s aware I don’t exactly like him (I wonder why) and they’re usually respected for a couple of weeks and then forgotten about entirely. AIBU to feel this way?

What should I do? Her mum isn’t aware of any of the above because Emma knows her mum would tell her to run, & I am debating messaging another one of her close friends to see if she would share her opinion but I’m concious of it going back to Emma at the same time.

OP posts:
notagolddigger · 05/08/2023 10:35

Eudaimonia5 · 05/08/2023 10:26

I think you need to see a therapist to work on your boundaries in friendships. You're way too involved in someone else's relationship. Your posts are ridiculous, you're obsessing over your friend's boyfriend's bedsheets and whether that could mean he's had an affair? Wtf?!

I never said I thought he had an affair but that the other friend thought this. I was never told about the bedsheets but the other friend was. The other friend told Emma she thought this was suspicious and said it was unusual for him to clean the sheets midweek. Emma decided not to tell me & I imagine it was because of the other friends response, she heard something she didn’t like & could likely be true given his past records. I’ve no opinion of the bedsheets because I only heard the story from a third party and not Emma or Luke directly so I know some things can be often lost in translation.

I went to a therapist years back before Emma & I’s friendship ended and he agreed I had to be firmer on boundaries and even encouraged me to end the friendship for my own benefit and said he thought she was narcissistic. As said, I did this & Emma ended up going to the same exact therapist (I mentioned how good he was after sessions) so I’d only love to see his notes.

Compared to then, Emma is a completely different person who has come on leaps and bounds. She is now very positive, very kind and caring, and is generally a lovely person to be around. She is motivated and determined & her dedication to her own work whether it be her actual job, the gym, or freelance work is really motivating and encouraging to be around. One time I had a hosp apt but mixed up the weekends & ended up effing myself up travel wise, without any hesitation, Emma said she would bring me and we could make a day out of it at the very last minute. She’s a thoughtful & sweet person. When my second nephew was born, she bought my eldest nephew a gift so he wouldn’t feel left out or overwhelmed by the new baby. She thinks about everyone before herself!!

OP posts:
notagolddigger · 05/08/2023 10:39

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 10:32

With kindness, you are way too deep into someone else's shit. I'm not blaming you, she fires it at you, but it is clear that it is time for you to extricate yourself from this time wasting drain on your energy. This relationship has nothing to do with you. Why on earth would you want to hear so much about it?

It sounds like your pal is fixated on him, the topic, the drama, the navel gazing. That's her issue. You can't switch her obsession off for her.

Stop being so available.

How do you suggest this?

I am starting a new job where my start and finish time will differ by 30 minutes either side so I imagine our coffee mornings & commutes home will stop as a result. However, we do go to the same gym around the same time (neither of us would change gyms because it is the best one in our town) & tend to have little chats before and after our workouts.

As for the texting - I have really tried to be less available but she is someone who is on her phone 25/8 (it’s apart of her job in fairness) & I tend to be tipping away through mine more than I should too.

I feel like I may just have to grin & bear it until Sept to see how my new job and work schedule plays

OP posts:
pictoosh · 05/08/2023 10:39

I bet all the other people she confides in aren't giving it a fraction of the thought that you do.

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 10:42

You don't have to grin and bear it at all. What a bizarre take on it. You have your own life and other friends I assume? Work, family, hobbies. Other things to do?

ManchesterGirl2 · 05/08/2023 10:44

notagolddigger · 05/08/2023 10:26

I only mentioned it to illustrate how bad they are together and the absolute notions he does get up to behind her back so people will understand my frustration when the red flags couldn’t even be more red. Absolutely, this post is about me & how I feel emotionally drained from being a constant shoulder to cry on.

I have already stated I don’t enjoy the drama, no one in the right mind would enjoy listening to their best friend cry in & day out over a fella who isn’t even kind.

I have said already about trying to distinguish boundaries but they’re only respected for so long until they’re forgotten about. It’s very hard to get up & walk away when we’re in a car together or at the gym, but I have learned to appropriately ignore the texts re Luke but she’s caught on and usually waits until we’re in person.

I don’t know about you but I couldn’t ever walk away from a friend crying hysterically no matter how much I wanted to, I’d have a guilty consciencefor the rest of my life

She has the right to stay with an awful partner. You don't have any right to control who she is with, that is her choice entirely. You do have the right to choose which topics of conversation you will engage in.

If she is waiting for moments when it is hard for you to escape in order to bring the topic up, she is behaving manipulatively towards you. Maybe not conciously and deliberately, it might be a pattern she learnt in childhood, but still its effect is manipulative. A non-manipulative friend will respect boundaries, sometimes with the occasional reminder. However awful someone is feeling, they don't have a right to ignore clearly-stated boundaries.

With someone who finds it hard to notice and respect boundaries, you need to be as harsh as necessary. In the car "I'm sorry Emma but I've already given you all the help I can with Luke. Lets put the radio on". Take headphones to the gym: "It was good to catch up but I'm not up for another Luke discussion, I really want to concentrate on positive things while I work out, I'm gonna stick some music on now." And if she won't respect that message, then cool the friendship to a level that works for you.

Backstreets · 05/08/2023 10:48

Just tell her to change the bloody record

notagolddigger · 05/08/2023 10:50

ManchesterGirl2 · 05/08/2023 10:44

She has the right to stay with an awful partner. You don't have any right to control who she is with, that is her choice entirely. You do have the right to choose which topics of conversation you will engage in.

If she is waiting for moments when it is hard for you to escape in order to bring the topic up, she is behaving manipulatively towards you. Maybe not conciously and deliberately, it might be a pattern she learnt in childhood, but still its effect is manipulative. A non-manipulative friend will respect boundaries, sometimes with the occasional reminder. However awful someone is feeling, they don't have a right to ignore clearly-stated boundaries.

With someone who finds it hard to notice and respect boundaries, you need to be as harsh as necessary. In the car "I'm sorry Emma but I've already given you all the help I can with Luke. Lets put the radio on". Take headphones to the gym: "It was good to catch up but I'm not up for another Luke discussion, I really want to concentrate on positive things while I work out, I'm gonna stick some music on now." And if she won't respect that message, then cool the friendship to a level that works for you.

Of course I would never tell her she couldn’t be with Luke (not my place & learned the hard way about voicing my concerns) so I totally understand that!

Your advice is really good in the last paragraph so thank you, I’ll definitely take it all on board and implement asap.

OP posts:
ImNotReallySpartacus · 05/08/2023 10:50

I hope you have other friends.

notagolddigger · 05/08/2023 10:57

ImNotReallySpartacus · 05/08/2023 10:50

I hope you have other friends.

Yes, but Emma is probably my closest friend in my hometown. I have other friends here but a lot of them still work hospitality jobs so our days off don’t align (I am always off weekends & they always work weekends) so it’s quite rare we get together but try to meet up at least once a month some evening for a cinema and/or dinner date midweek. A lot of these friends love nights out & getting blackout drunk whereas I don’t drink often anymore and prioritise an early morning in the gym over a late night out midweek. I also spend most weekends with my own boyfriend. Most of my friends in the last couple of months either live elsewhere (finishing their masters, work in cities) or emigrated to Oz/Canada so a lot of our catch-ups are FaceTime calls or the visits every 1-2 months. I have my own plans to emigrate Summer 24.

OP posts:
Curseofthenation · 05/08/2023 11:00

It's kind of funny that you're advising your friend to leave a toxic relationship because her boundaries are being ignored but that you aren't willing to respect your own.

The feelings that tie you to this crappy friendship that gives very little are tying Emma to Luke. Lead by example and tell her that you can't do it anymore. She is using you as a therapist but she will only move on when she gets fed up or bored.

Daphnis156 · 05/08/2023 11:05

It seems you could write a (not very interesting) novel called "Emma".
Every twitch, every detail of this woman's life you are fixing upon and like a vampire living from it.
So take a few big steps back- and dump her.
Find something more interesting in your life. Stop obsessing. Stop whining.

Guimpe · 05/08/2023 11:24

OP, you think this thread is about Emma and Luke’s clusterfuck of a relationship. Bluntly, it isn’t. It’s about whatever it is in your own psyche that makes you, consciously or unconsciously, feed to this extent off someone else’s drama, amplifying its role in your life by discussing it with other friends, and finding numerous excuses as to why you can’t/won’t step back from Emma. You choose this. Ask yourself why, and be honest when you answer.

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 11:25

"The feelings that tie you to this crappy friendship that gives very little are tying Emma to Luke. Lead by example and tell her that you can't do it anymore."

I think this is sound advice. Just be honest. You're not obliged to provide her with an unconditional friend service. I think a lot of people hold stock by 'true friends' and 'no matter what'...but really it's a childish, unrealistic notion. Being someone's friend does not mean sacrificing your own peace of mind and time for years just so you can 'be there'. Adult life doesn't allow for such indulgences.

It's also quite interesting that you should feel so bidden to someone who fell out with you for a year because she didn't like what you had to say. She cut you off cold and you forgave, resuming services. If that were me I'd have been thrice shy, never mind twice. I bet you wouldn't have done that to her.
You are treating her with tenderness that she obviously doesn't feel for you. I'm not saying she's wrong for that...but you need to respond in kind if you want her to respect you enough to salvage something out of this friendship. Tell her you've had enough.

Eudaimonia5 · 05/08/2023 11:26

See a different therapist and for the love of god, don't tell Emma! You're obsessed with her, you've got some kind of codependent thing going on. Make sure the therapist you see has experience in attachment issues and codependency. You definitely need help. Even your response to me was all "Emma said this, Luke did this". You need professional help and support to get Emma out of your life, to work on how you got to this point, how to make sure it doesn't happen again and to slowly rebuild your life. Your life right now isn't normal!

FiddleLeaf · 05/08/2023 11:28

You’re far too invested in this. I wonder why it’s winding you up so much that even your boyfriend is saying take a step back.

JustaChristian · 05/08/2023 11:38

I could bare only half a paragraph of that nonsense. You are not their parent, they are not underage. Nothing in anyone's life is your business, not even close friend.

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 11:38

The amount of detail about their interactions in your posts. I couldn't write anything like that about any of my closest friends' relationships. And we do share our shit, believe me.

You have become The Luke and Emma Show's number one fan. Whether you intended to or not, that is what has happened and she likes the attention.

TheCatterall · 05/08/2023 11:40

@notagolddigger massive squishes. I had this many years ago with a friend and her now husband.

in the end I told her that I loved her loads but in the last x years I’ve heard so much about the relationship ups and downs and I really don’t think the amount of time spent discussing and evaluating everything is healthy for our friendship or you. Not do I feel the relationship is a healthy dynamic with them both. That I feel more like a therapist or emotional dumping ground than a friend. That I no longer feel our relationship is an equal one. That I want to get back to a healthier place in our friendship and she needs to stop discussing X other than brief mentions of what they do as a couple. I ask her if that sounds fair. I remind her we’ve reached this point and had this discussion in various forms over the years so how can we make it stick? What should I do if she starts to cross my boundary again.

we agreed a little hand squish and a reminder that our time together isn’t for ‘this talk’ would be the thing.

And then it was just a case of constantly doing it.

I would ask her to contact a therapist if she needed a place to vent as dumping all this on friends would possibly push friends away. And maybe she’ll get the subtle hint about other friends may be exasperated.

funny how she’s willing to fall out with you and not speak - but she’ll go grovelling back to him every time he pushes her away. :/

pikkumyy77 · 05/08/2023 11:45

I agree with everyone else’s diagnosis: you think the problem is Emma’s relationship with Luke but the problem is your relationship with Emma.

Boundaries are something you set and protect not something Emma has to recognize and respect. You keep setting them, like a fence, and she just leans on them and pushes them over. You need to protect the boundary and follow through with a consequence when she violates it.

Others have pointed out: headphones, walk away, refirect, end interaction. These are all necessary to retraining her to stop using you as her therapist/dumping ground.

You find it hard to really set the boundary and enforce it because you know she will punish you by withdrawing affection and friendship. And you feel confused and obligated to “help” her. Read “Out Of The Fog” which is about Fear, Obligation, and Guilt in relationship s and also “Codependent No More” to get out of this drama trap you are in. But accept that when you no longer let her use you as a midden for her muck she will cut you off. Not because she is hurt by you but because you aren’t useful to her.

LaMaG · 05/08/2023 11:47

This is tricky OP but I feel you have done all you can and its time to step back. As PPs suggest, you need to stop the Luke chats or else you'll have to stop hanging out with Emma. It's hard to stand up to friends, it's something I struggle with too

cansu · 05/08/2023 11:49

You stay out of it give only non committal vague expressions of sympathy when she moans about it. Of course you don't message anyone else. You are getting too involved in their drama.

monsteramunch · 05/08/2023 11:53

As for the texting - I have really tried to be less available but she is someone who is on her phone 25/8 (it’s apart of her job in fairness) & I tend to be tipping away through mine more than I should too.

I don't understand this.

Even if you're on your phone just as much as her, what does that have to do with you trying to be less available?

You can be on your phone constantly if you want, it doesn't mean you have to keep replying to her as much as you currently are.

Just crack on with whatever else you're doing on your phone surely? Being on your phone doesn't mean you're obligated to keep replying.

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 11:59

"I agree with everyone else’s diagnosis: you think the problem is Emma’s relationship with Luke but the problem is your relationship with Emma."

100%

HeadacheEarthquake · 05/08/2023 12:16

Why have you told us Emma's life story?

Why the actual fuck are you considering contacting her friend about it

This is insane

New posts on this thread. Refresh page