Controversial marriage question

[wedding12341]

Thinking about another thread on here where someone has moved in and had children with their fiancé who has now changed his mind about getting married. Someone on the thread said it is just a small minority of women that are disadvantaged by marriage.

Eg - the woman brings more assets / money to the marriage than the man.

Based on the above

If you were one of these women in the minority (or your friend / daughter was) - Would you advise them not to get married?

Name changed for this.

Thanks to OP for starting this thread. I am in the minority. I was in the meeting yesterday so I couldn't post but read most comments- sorry haven't read today's but I will. I will post twice. Short and long.

Short:
Get legal protection. I did a prenup as advised by my twice married friend- I wasn't fussed either way, but it was good to have it during the first few years (1st 2 years) as I adjusted to a new life.
I married late- subject of long post.
I met and married my DH in less than 3 months.
In my circumstances I would not marry JUST anyone (love or no love- I fall deeply lol), or marry just anyone that quickly (again love or no love)- reasons for accepting to marry DH in long post- so he was an exception.
I wouldn't marry just for IHT reasons.

Trust- elaborated in long post as clearly I have only known my Dh 3 weeks before proposal, so I need to explain what I mean- but that played a major role.
It was my decision as much as it was his, and I wanted and was ready for a change- otherwise, I wouldn't have married. As complicated as all that sound, I unbelievably can look at life in a simplistic way sometimes which can work for some but not for all. It works for me, because I take an informed decision, have many alternatives which I accept most people don't have, so I know I can always pick myself up.

Now off to long post.

I agree that posts that make other posters feel they didn't choose well, gave up too quickly etc etc are unhelpful and even hurtful. Whatever the financial cost to me, I would not stay in an abusive etc etc etc marriage a second longer!

https://www.deseret.com/2017/2/5/20605483/cohabitation-less-stable-for-families-than-marriage-worldwide-though-more-doing-it

http://worldfamilymap.ifstudies.org/2017/

Further information is available on google scholar.

Long post (sorry short wasn't that short)

I am self-employed with an international career in a regulated sector and can work in over 54 countries so my earnings vary and can be as much as £400K in a year ( even much more, but that's enough for this purpose). However, I have 2 countries I can always work and live in with different economies which is helpful. So, I can change my circumstances at a moment's notice.

I have amassed a fortune from real hard-work. I am motivated by what I do and not by money. I therefore have never been money focused- this helped when it came to marrying- but I am values focussed. It's why you must believe those who say find your passion if it's money you want. So, in my belief, it is easy to make money - just work hard.

I then met a kindred heart (late DP) before I met my DH who was exactly like me and made his money similarly. We were drawn towards each other by values, passion and wanted to help others. We were planning to marry and he died of Covid- of course I was devastated as I didn't; have to ask if he was with me for money etc etc. We had an easy relationship. I am due a windfall from the work we did together before he died.

After DP's death, I had all sorts showing an interest in me while I was grieving, clearly because they saw an opening. It was DISGUSTING. My alarm bells went off and I knew I had to protect myself. Luckily I know the city well and the city types including pretenders- so it was easy to avoid them. Cut long story short, I decided to forget about men and focus on the work which would lift many people in 3rd world countries out of poverty and forget the rest. As I was putting those plans in motion, I met my DH.

He didn't know anything about me, but just saw a woman who he thought was delightful. He really admired all my hard work, principles and values. I admired his focus and determination.

Marriage: Before we married, he made it clear he wanted nothing from me and I believed him. He was previously married and his wife died young and I saw how they lived, which is how I would want in a marriage. She didn't work as he didn't care what she did. I liked that because I have always valued making my own decision about what was important to me at any given time. The idea that I must work when I don't need to, or I don't want, was very weird to me. Same as the idea that if I wanted to work, I cannot- I believe in having a voice and a choice. He owned his brand-new house outright- not worth millions, but it was important to me that he had a secure home for himself.On top of that, he ran a small business which had potential to grow; one part of it might even make him millions any day but he is working o that- it may start at a couple of hundred thousands first before bigger sums. I like self-employed people, because although I was self-employed, many times, my assignments could just be like proper employment and I know how fixed and rigid employers can be. Most people can meet up every 2 or 3 weeks because they are still developing their career. Yes, I leap frogged my career as I went self-employed so I progressed faster than people my age. So I really didn't want to marry someone who was a slave to an employer- I just didn't want. So for the first 2 years, we travelled the world as we were our own bosses. That's enough for that.

Before we married, we discussed our wills. I was clear that all my stuff would go to my family ( I married late and they were there every step of the way including some difficult times -very short times thank God-when a woman like me earns more than men and that's frown up). He was clear that all his stuff will go to me. I was shocked, but that's how I knew, he really wanted nothing from me. He then made proposals as to what to do with his things after he dies ,in my new will after his death ( he is 9 years older than me) although he knows that will be 100% my decision. I will honour it though. I have left all designer stuff to him (handbags, Cartier , shoes, day dresses, evening dresses etc) worth around £150K to him in the will. He will be able to sell it at a better value and Gove the money to my family. I trust him enough to sell it within 3 years. I have left him all the cash too as I have invested all the cash anyway ( I don't keep cash- when you start investing, you get used to a no cash mindset so that anytime I am waiting for a windfall, my mind goes into deciding what to invest it in), so any money in there when I die will have been acquired within marriage. However, a certain amount is for my funeral and rest for him. He owns a Bentley which I very much enjoy being driven in- I was jokingly mentioning that if I came into money and paid off all my mortgages, I would treat myself to a Bentley, and then I met my husband and as the friend I joked with said: "Oh, now you no longer need to buy one;-)

If we have children, we will change the wills and I will establish trusts and give some assets to him.

So, that was before we married. Prenup done. Wills done 5 months after wedding- there was back and forth with sol.

Not to offend some, but I also married him because I knew he will not divorce me- not because I am wonderful (which I am :-), but, like me, he believes in the sanctity of marriage (like me- we are both old-fashioned in that respect). He relayed how his first wife cheated on him- they married very very young- but he still didn't want to divorce her. I am not interested in cheating- never cheated. Nor would I stay with him if he cheated, but it demonstrated to me that he truly wants to be married. In fact he outright said he won't divorce.

So, I knew my money (assets) was safe- especially when I saved it from open jaws of many sharks as soon as I was single and even before. Nothing pits me off of a person than they being focused on a woman's money.

I have retained the flexibility I had before marriage and I decide what work I want to do and when. I didn't;t even work for 8 months until a month ago. DH also own a company which I will take over to run even from home (I like working from home and have always done even before the pandemic) so is now teaching me how to do it. My main career is on hold now as I plan how to incorporate in how I want to live my life in old age- once I decide how, I will also do it from home only and can do it along side the business things. I was already transitioning into doing business only (for more flexibility) with late DP, before I met DH. So, I am continuing with that transition.

When my outstanding debt (over a mil- or maybe I will get nothing) from the work I did with DP before sudden death comes, but if I do, and no matter the amount- I plan to invest it in a property in my name only. Since the debt was incurred before marriage, I don't believe I need a post-nup, but will take advice. Again, not that fussed although I do want to in my name to make things easy for myself. As I will need a small mortgage that should be easy as his credit rating is very bad 6 years after someone stole his earlier business.

I feel lucky and grateful things have worked out. Of course, others still haven't stopped trying their luck years on. One very recently even said, I am sorry your DH died lol lo I said, that was my DP. My DH is very much alive :-)

So, different people will always have different reasons for marrying, no matter their bank balance. Yes, I did feel like a celebrity, knowing I could very much find myself divorced within 3 months if it turned out to be a living hell- I was not shy to admit my mistake, but I am authentic and live an authentic and honest life. I also have a non-judgemental family who just want to see me happy :-)

give, not Gove.

While it's truly lovely to read your essay on how rich you are and how great your life is, cop the f on, the vast, vast majority of people do not have that experience. Read the room (if you're real). If you're on here much at all, you'll know that people are availing of food banks. Not because they're all lazy, or stupid, or whatever. Statistically, it's impossible for everyone to amass great wealth.

I have never been in a relationship with a man who earns more than me. I out earn both my present partner and my ex husband by a factor of three to one.

I very foolishly got married and narrowly avoided losing my home when my marriage ended. I’m not making that mistake again.

My present partner and I are talking about cohabiting (undecided). The cornerstone of that (if it ever happens) will be:

• categorically no marriage under any circumstances
• Deed of trust on any property
• Clarity that there will not be a shared tenancy
• Cobtract specifically mandating separate finances

I have a child (not his) snd there’s no way any of her inheritance is going to be acquired by him.

The adage that marriage protects women only works when the woman is the financially weaker partner. Which is true most of the time but increasingly not.

Women who have decent earnings and assets are at risk of sleepwalking to disaster by marrying. It’s not worth it.

Oh ffs, she shared her experience that is relevant to the thread, i.e ‘the room’.

She did indeed, ad nauseum. She's loaded, fair play to her. How are the minutiae of her finances relevant to anything no more than mine are? It's a brag. Perhaps inadvertent, but leave it out.

Even if it is, it’s hardly necessary to pull out ‘read the room!’ as if there is only one room, and people can only acknowledge their wealth if they pay appropriate tribute to those with less.

Yeah, grand, but it's all a bit my wallet is too small for my 50s and my diamond shoes are too tight. And on a forum where so many are dirt poor. I'm poor so I suppose sensitive? But it was a lengthy treatise on how hard life is with loadsa cash.

@Chickenkeev

Agree it was a wee bit tactless but I think it was a very long winded and round about way of saying “don’t assume it’s always the man who brings the money”.

The legal and framework of marriage is very much intended to protect someone who is not working because they are raising children. It works very well in that context. Not so well when the roles are reversed.

I think it’s not really fit for purpose any more and needs a facelift and decontamination of the brand and all the romantic and religious window dressing, which distracts a lot of people from what the point of it is.

It’s a forum used by people from all walks of life, not one specifically catered for those financially struggling. She has a different set of issues to the ones you face, but she’s no less entitled to speak on them. You aren’t forced to engage.

@whumpthereitis 100% agreed. No need to flame anyone for sharing their perspective on a thread clearly started inviting those in 'the minority' to post.

@Chickenkeev who says is a high earner is perhaps feeling v poor by comparison. What an irony the poster said she already had a hard time from people because of her earning power.

@Thepeopleversuswork '..but I think it was a very long winded and round about way of saying don’t assume it’s always the man who brings the money”

I read it that way too.
Plus helping pp understand what a high earner really is- £85K is a lot of money but it shouldn't stop anyone marrying even an academic, while someone on £200K/ £250K/ £300K and up does have very serious considerations to take.

But that probably is another MN thread altogether: on high earning meaning.

Also, she made many good points made by others: check your intended partner's attitude to your money, his work, etc etc as much as possible to mitigate as much as possible.

More power to her I say.

I brought way more to my marriage financially than xh and lost half of it to him when we divorced. I now have more assets, and potentially a very decent inheritance in the future, there is no way on earth I'd marry again and potentially lose it. My assets are for my children's futures. I might feel differently if I met a very wealthy man though 😉

Exactly this. There’s no upside to marriage if you’re the asset rich partner. You are literally signing half your money away.

That’s equitable in a context where your partner is depriving themselves of income for a decade to raise your children and in doing so supporting you to work frictionlessly (which is the traditional marriage setup).

If you are the one with the money and the children and your partner is capable of supporting themselves marriage is just pointlessly giving away money to someone who doesn’t need it. It’s a nonsense in that scenario.

Thank you and very well said. I am truly sorry If I offended anyone. I didn't realise I had to check my privilege first before I posted on a thread clearly inviting those with wealth/ high earning powers to share their position. ( which I very much acknowledged anyway when I didn't even have to, as although I do have many opportunities, I created them all including taking many risks which many people wouldn't consider ( again cushioned a bit by my privilege which I always acknowledge - part of why I don't give motivational talks no matter the invites!) and was blessed with a higher IQ, but I know many people with low IQ who can also earn millions if not billions, so I know earning a lot of money is not a preserve of those with higher IQs either). So, don't engage as this poster has clearly summed it all up!

Enough about this and will kill the username. Good to see only one poster got very excited by it, so far. No one called you (or others) lazy or stupid- you called (them) and yourself those things.

If I didn't make it clear in my post, I never cared my DH (any Dh) would one day get 50:50 if I divorced as I always wanted to get married. I just didn't;t want someone who clearly ( I know people can hide intentions etc hence I am saying clearly - people where I live can be transparent without them noticing they are 'showing' - wanted / set out to marry to get half of it.

I doubt very much I will marry again/ live together again if I lose Dh- he is 9 year older- but never say never. And will definitely actively take financial and legal advice if I got a partner later.

@Giveover80 I will respect you by replying, but I want to leave it.

But none of that would change anything in the circumstances.

I also wanted to explain the marrying in less than 6 months. Don't be fooled by all those who do it, you need to do you. As you can see, I have a different attitude and different concerns, so I could do it. But all those who say, get to know them over 2 years etc also make good point. I could marry without waiting, so I did. Too many people like to copy others.

@Giveover80 I don't want to reply- sorry. But I wanted to show you respect, but I see that didn't work.

I am killing the username as I said.