Are there 2 castes of people? One born with absolute value because their parents valued them, and one whose value is 'earned' and more ambiguous?

[Howdoweallknow]

And nobody likes to admit this?

What is the concrete proof that all lives have equal value, so every person born has intrinsic worth?

Just curious and would like to see people's thoughts really. I asked my therapist this today (when questioning my own value, and doubting) and of course she said each person has value - but like, why?

If your parent(s) were ambivalent at best, or overtly abusive at worst, where does the value come from initially? Value to who and why? There are so many people in the world, it's not like the value comes from being a rare thing, so does the value boil down to contribution to society in the end, essentially?

I kind of don't get it at all, if I really think about it.

We're not all valued equally throughout our lives, so is there a hierarchy of value present at the start when we're born?

I believe that all lives do have intrinsic, and equal value. However, I have noticed going through life there seem to be some people who are just comfortable in their own skin and don’t feel the need to constantly compete and impress others, and some people who constantly have to seek ‘value’ from others - for example people who compete in terms of kids, constantly sharing stuff on social media in a ‘one up manship way, those people who never seem to be content. Maybe some people are halfway between the two. I do think that people who seem comfortable in their own skin have probably gained this due to their parents and how much they valued them, how secure the attachment was - I think the first 5 years of life are the most important in terms of development and you are with your parents then, so 🤷‍♀️.

I think those who are valued by their parents have a really solid start in life, and potentially will find life less of a struggle as they are secure in their place in the world. And people will be attracted to that, so that they go on to be valued by others. Value begets value.

For the rest of us, we have to work harder to feel that we have value and to prove it to others.
Big generalisation of course, but there’s truth in it I reckon.

I have described myself in therapy as an accident and a mistake, because I was. But to be fair, so is a massive percentage of the world population. I think it must be nice to be planned, wanted and cherished.

I. Was an accident my dd was. I felt deeply cherished and adored by my dp and I hope my dd feels precious and adored.

It'a a very deep and complex topic.
I grew up in a much less than perfect home, alcoholic abusive father, lovely mum but not very protective and abit emotionally neglectful, I was clean, fed, educated etc but if I got bullied she didn't do anything about it, which has forever effected my sense of self worth and value.
However at 36 and with a little more wisdom then i once I had I've come to realise that we are all valuable because we've all won the biggest race of all.
We were made from the strongest egg and the strongest sperm and we survived long enough to imbed in our mothers womb and multiply into this complex being, with all the odds against us, we made it. So just that alone is enough to make me realise how valuable we are and how lucky we are to be alive.

Interesting question.

You life is of value primarily to you. Its value to those who love you is also potentially huge whether that be parents, partners, children, friends etc. To a lesser extent your life is of value to others who benefit from your work or achievements. But even someone who has no family or close friends and who achieves nothing particularly notable should still value their own life.

Being loved and respected by your parents is hugely important in determining how you feel about yourself, but the value of your life does not depend on how other people feel about you

If your parent(s) were ambivalent at best, or overtly abusive at worst, where does the value come from initially? Value to who and why? There are so many people in the world, it's not like the value comes from being a rare thing, so does the value boil down to contribution to society in the end, essentially?

Do you think that’s true OP? Do you think unwanted babies are valueless? Should they feel worthless?

each of us is deserving of dignity and worth because we’re human beings. There will be times where we don’t receive that respect, but we do deserve it. The children of neglectful /abusive parents do deserve self esteem. The failure is with the parent; not the child.

I think maybe you're talking about internal and external validation? People who feel intrinsically that their life has a value, compared to people who need to feel that others value them? If so then yes, I agree this comes partly (mainly?) from your experiences as a very young child.

Surely having value and believing you have value are two completely different things? If you knew a child whose parents didn't value them, OP, would you say that child didn't have value? I hope not! They have just as much value as any other human being.

There are all kinds of harsh ways of judging yourself which can be caused by trauma, neglect and other adverse life conditions, but that doesn't mean those judgments are objectively true.

Parents do not dictate a child’s worth, although being valued by parents naturally breeds confidence. I actually believe its irrelevant how valued or unvalued a child is by their parents, all children are equally valuable. Adults the same. Some naturally tick all the right boxes to be favoured, others fiercely compete to excel, others more comfortable in their own skin don't need others approval, some push against acceptable norms. I work with teens with SEN, many of whom struggle to contribute to their community or fly high academically, however they are all amazing and valuable.

It's a very interesting question! I was taught that my value was acutely conditional - also that I was a mistake, a failure, a burden & so on. There were other adults who loved me as one expects, but I didn't have the framework to bask in the security they offered. Childhood was mainly a long effort not to be "wrong".

I didn't figure this out until starting therapy in my mid-forties. Slowly came to understand that I had chosen abusive relationships, as they chose me, because this pattern of being judged, punished or rewarded was all I knew. I had friends with inner security and mutually supportive relationships, and envied them. I just thought I had some character flaw, though.

Many years and much therapy later, I know better. I know I'm worthwhile just for being. I validate myself and have, I believe, a good set of boundaries. In a way, though, it's an overlay. I'm still prone to 'fear' around perfectly normal things, and go through phases of my "inner critical parent" slagging me off non-stop.

It really pisses me off when people insist that you can just decide to do better, when your childhood shaped the brain that needs to make this decision! You can, of course, do better but it's a learned set of skills covering every aspect of life. It's not something you can "just do" and I doubt whether the task's ever fully complete. There's no re-doing your childhood.

Being valued or not by your parents is a source of extrinsic value, evaluation from outside oneself. Many (most?) people think that life in general has some intrinsic value, people have value just because they're people. Even if you don't think there's intrinsic value, even unloved children with abusive parents are valued by the many strangers who value the existence of children in general.

@ParisP I understand what you mean, and agree that all people are individually valuable. Your attitude is entirely appropriate to your job. But I think you're naïve. Parents do dictate a child's worth to the child and the adult that child becomes.

Botg my sister & I had a bad childhood. Alcoholic & strict mum & we were on the at risk register with SS watching over. My sister had a terrible adult life & subsequently died young. I (because I had a different dad) had an extremely supportive set of grandparents who really loved me, fought my mum for custody, drove to collect me every weekend.I knew they loved me. My adult life has been a world apart from that of my sisters. That can only mean the love of grandparents that made a difference.

I am happy, confident in myself & my decisions & consider myself to have high self worth. I don’t need to impress anyone (bar my dd). My poor sister spent her whole life vulnerable & searching for someone to live her.

What an interesting thread. I think everyone is intrinsically and equally valuable because everyone is unique, and able to touch others in unique ways. Isn't this amazing actually in the context of all these millions and billions of people in the world. Still no one is exactly like you; no-one could contribute your exact point of view to a discussion or paint a picture the way you do or have a kind of idea that only you might have. No-one ever has or ever will be exactly like you. This uniqueness therefore intrinsically adds an extra bit of richness to the amazing richness of the world.

People should have equal value to everyone but they don't. That's reality. Beautiful and intelligent people are valued more. People with social skills are valued more. People value those in their closer geographical location more, or in their own religion, or political borders. On a macro level anyway.

On a micro level I do think people whose parents value them have a huge leg up in life. I remember watching the Monica Lewinsky show and as soon as the FBI or secret service or whoever was questioning her got tough she rang her parents and they swooped in and advocated for her. I remember thinking how solid their relationship was that as she was being questioned about giving oral sex to a man who was married, her boss and the president she still had enough confidence in her relationship with her parents and their intrinsic value of her to go straight to them.