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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you think that this country will have a working class PM?

249 replies

EddyF · 03/08/2023 18:47

Do you think it’s possible and likely? someone who has gone to a bog-standard school; rented or grow up in council stock, or just someone who has lead a ordinary life like the majority in the U.K?

I don’t understand how people can only vote for the elite despite what the ordinary man and woman goes through in this country. The problems aren’t new with the NHS/benefit system/classism/immigration/no funding for society to actually run effectively. But they keep being voted in. Why? Twice this week people have told me they would rather vote Tories again as long as its not Labour. One with MH and can't get the proper help and the other one who is still working at senior age.

These issues haven’t just started and have been a sore point for a long time under the tories. Which begs the question, why do people vote for them? What vetted interest would the ordinary person have to vote the same party all of the time? It can’t just be about immigration ( what have the tories sorted out effectively regarding immagration?). I am not white but I have worked with white working class service users with very little in life but follow the rhetoric of the conservatives. Knowing damn well they will never reach the lifestyle of the party they're voting.

How did The Sun manage to get a large number of their readership to vote for tories? time and time again. First time might make sense as people desire change, but over and over again? Even if it is about immigration, don’t they have children and families who they can see struggle with these policies?

I get why businesses may vote the way they do, but the people in this country confuse me. Why not vote Conservative and if you're not happy with them in the next election, you don't touch them? why stick with them?

I was born in the U.K. My primary education was in France and we lived in the USA for some time. All childhood holidays in Africa mainly. With all of the faults with the American system (especially for non-white people/margainlised groups), it is more fluid in getting yourself out of poverty/access to social mobility.

All my International friends from Africa to the US are doing better than me, despite us all studying/holding same qualifications. It feels impossible buying a property here despite earning on paper a very decent salary and being a professional. My friends/family abroad all seem to own/build even if they earn less/same.

Once you're paying approx 2K in rent in London (yes you can move out but most people have family/work/community built there),how can you save for a significant deposit with rent, bills, car-note etc? wouldn't most government/policy makers want to help the youth in prosperity since the western world have essentially the systems to make a society less unfair/workable?

I am not saying everyone is poor in this country. It's just a lot of people are suffering needlessly due to mismanagementof the country where only a smaller number get to enjoy life like how it should be.

I actually think it's better to abstain voting than voting the same people/party that have communicated verbally and non-verbally that they do not give a fuck.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Neverseenbefore · 04/08/2023 17:25

cyclamenqueen · 04/08/2023 17:21

Haven’t read the whole thread but surely John Major fits this description. One roomed council flat, absent Dad, left secondary modern school at 16.

He was mentioned the first couple of replies.

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 17:48

Unfortunately for the egg guy Prescott boxed as a younger man.

Indeed. I thought the "egger" absolutely deserved it and found it highly amusing. 😆

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 17:48

Quite. Buzz Aldrin once decked a moon landing denier who was provoking him.

Anybody got a video of that? That also sounds highly amusing.

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 17:50

cyclamenqueen · 04/08/2023 17:21

Haven’t read the whole thread but surely John Major fits this description. One roomed council flat, absent Dad, left secondary modern school at 16.

Yes, absolutely. He was one of our better Prime Ministers also: he seems to have some integrity.

Barrell · 04/08/2023 17:51

usedtobeasizeten · 04/08/2023 17:24

Think Harold Wilson was from a working class background too

Middle class I think - a chemist and a school teacher.

CurlewKate · 04/08/2023 17:51

"Didn't even pass the 11 plus and go to Grammar School like Thatcher/Major/Starmer but went to a secondary modern school then joined the merchant navy."
Don't you mean "he went to the school that was appropriate to his needs."?

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 17:51

usedtobeasizeten · 04/08/2023 17:24

Think Harold Wilson was from a working class background too

That particular one was a disaster.

"A pound is a pound..."

Never mind inflation, eh? 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

We do really need leaders who have a basic grasp of economics, as a minimum.

CurlewKate · 04/08/2023 17:54

@tootallfortheshelf "A definition of working class?
This is not a dictionary definition but when I hear the phrase 'working class' I think of someone whose levels of literacy and numeracy are not particularly high and who is therefore easy to fool and subordinate."

You're either lying for effect or a despicable human being. Can't decide which yet.

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 18:06

How does someone who is “thick as a brick” become the Deputy Prime Minister?

Answer - He’s not thick as a brick.

Well, I don't know...

I mean, Dominic Raab, for example?!?

The man who said he "hadn't quite understood the importance of the Dover to Calais trade route", as Brexit Secretary. The mind boggles.

The only upsetting thing about Johnson shaking hands with lots of infected Covid patients until he ended up in intensive care was the prospect that Raab might have to step in as PM.

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 18:08

^^ a brick would have done a better job!!

Mothercareyschickens · 04/08/2023 18:26

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 04/08/2023 16:33

It wasn't fights, it was one incident where he punched someone who had thrown an egg at him at very close range. He didn't know what it was and thought the yolk running down his neck was his own blood. It was a reaction in the moment not a bar brawl.

He admitted to 2-3 fights

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/27/john-prescott-ive-only-ever-been-in-two-or-three-fights

John Prescott: ‘I’ve only ever been in two or three fights’

The politician, 80, on life as a merchant seaman, saying no to email, and being an optimist

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/27/john-prescott-ive-only-ever-been-in-two-or-three-fights

BonjourCrisette · 04/08/2023 18:26

hellsbells99 · 03/08/2023 19:32

Keir Starmer is not working class - his father owned the factory he was a toolmaker in.

I don't think this is true. The only place this allegation appears is in a piece by Lord Ashcroft and as far as I can see there doesn't seem to be any supporting evidence. But I would be interested to see it if there is any!

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 18:32

Why does it matter? Surely at this stage what we want is competent, intelligent people with some integrity who are capable of making rational decisions and setting integrated, evidence-based and implementable policies?

If we get that (a pipe dream based on what is on offer currently) then I don't care what their parents' house was like or what jobs their parents did etc.

Notonthestairs · 04/08/2023 18:34

"I’ve only ever been in two or three fights. One was with a guy when I was at sea [Prescott was in the merchant navy]. We were dancing in a club and he pulled a knife on us. I faced him, but pulled out – one slip of the knife and you’re gone."

And...?

CoffeeCantata · 04/08/2023 18:47

Barrell · Today 17:51
usedtobeasizeten · Today 17:24

Think Harold Wilson was from a working class background too
Middle class I think - a chemist and a school teacher.

Yes - and he started his own career as an Economics don at Oxford.

As other posters have pointed out - having a regional accent doesn't necessarily equate with being working class.

CoffeeCantata · 04/08/2023 18:56

Just catching up with the thread and it seems to me that, as ever when we try to discuss class, no-one can really provide a definition.

I think the answer to OP's question is probably 'We've already had PMs from modest backgrounds. But in order to become PM, they will have been high achievers in some field and maybe quite high earners, so they're no longer working class once they get there.'

When I worked in museums/galleries, there was always a drive to attract new audiences - specifically working class visitors. So surveys were commissioned and they tended to define people who visited museums as middle class (and you can see where this is going) so therefore the results always showed that only middle class people visited galleries. Need to do something about that...

It's the same here. In order to become PM, you need to become well-educated, successful and well-off . So are you still working class? It's a circular argument.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 04/08/2023 18:59

Not while in office.

It was the egg incident that gave rise to the two jabs name.

Daydreamings · 04/08/2023 19:02

Keir Starmer grew up working class , his father worked in a factory as a tool maker and his mother was a nurse. She was very ill during his childhood so wasn't able to work. His sister works in the care system.

He was the first in his family to go to university. His father didn't own the factory he worked in , Margaret Thatcher's father did own his dad shop, that would have made her middle class where I grew up.

Starmer 's upbringing is working class by any standard.

Matrons · 04/08/2023 19:03

Gordon Brown was working class. Bring him back

Daydreamings · 04/08/2023 19:07

@Matrons he is such a decent man but sadly the country went with Cameron and Clegg....

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 04/08/2023 19:08

CurlewKate · 04/08/2023 17:51

"Didn't even pass the 11 plus and go to Grammar School like Thatcher/Major/Starmer but went to a secondary modern school then joined the merchant navy."
Don't you mean "he went to the school that was appropriate to his needs."?

I'm not commenting upon the suitability of the school or his intelligence/educational needs.

This is about class, grammar schools were known to allow bright working class and lower middle class children to become more upwardly mobile, and therefore able to get into more middle class work or even attend university. Secondary moderns were designed to provide basic skills for those going into unskilled, semi skilled or manual work. Those who attended secondary modern did not go to university and enter politics.

I'm not really a fan of Prescott but that he went to university and rose to deputy prime minister despite his background is impressive.

CurlewKate · 04/08/2023 19:15

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon
Sorry-I was being sarcastic. Unsuccessfully! The social mobility narrative never really worked-and doesn't work at all now! One or two examples doesn't actually make it true.

CoffeeCantata · 04/08/2023 19:15

Matrons · Today 19:03
Gordon Brown was working class. Bring him back

But his father was a minister in the Church of Scotland. I don't think that's a wc background.

OrangeCrayon · 04/08/2023 19:49

CoffeeCantata · 04/08/2023 18:56

Just catching up with the thread and it seems to me that, as ever when we try to discuss class, no-one can really provide a definition.

I think the answer to OP's question is probably 'We've already had PMs from modest backgrounds. But in order to become PM, they will have been high achievers in some field and maybe quite high earners, so they're no longer working class once they get there.'

When I worked in museums/galleries, there was always a drive to attract new audiences - specifically working class visitors. So surveys were commissioned and they tended to define people who visited museums as middle class (and you can see where this is going) so therefore the results always showed that only middle class people visited galleries. Need to do something about that...

It's the same here. In order to become PM, you need to become well-educated, successful and well-off . So are you still working class? It's a circular argument.

Exactly!!!