Do you think that this country will have a working class PM?

[EddyF]

Do you think it’s possible and likely? someone who has gone to a bog-standard school; rented or grow up in council stock, or just someone who has lead a ordinary life like the majority in the U.K?

I don’t understand how people can only vote for the elite despite what the ordinary man and woman goes through in this country. The problems aren’t new with the NHS/benefit system/classism/immigration/no funding for society to actually run effectively. But they keep being voted in. Why? Twice this week people have told me they would rather vote Tories again as long as its not Labour. One with MH and can't get the proper help and the other one who is still working at senior age.

These issues haven’t just started and have been a sore point for a long time under the tories. Which begs the question, why do people vote for them? What vetted interest would the ordinary person have to vote the same party all of the time? It can’t just be about immigration ( what have the tories sorted out effectively regarding immagration?). I am not white but I have worked with white working class service users with very little in life but follow the rhetoric of the conservatives. Knowing damn well they will never reach the lifestyle of the party they're voting.

How did The Sun manage to get a large number of their readership to vote for tories? time and time again. First time might make sense as people desire change, but over and over again? Even if it is about immigration, don’t they have children and families who they can see struggle with these policies?

I get why businesses may vote the way they do, but the people in this country confuse me. Why not vote Conservative and if you're not happy with them in the next election, you don't touch them? why stick with them?

I was born in the U.K. My primary education was in France and we lived in the USA for some time. All childhood holidays in Africa mainly. With all of the faults with the American system (especially for non-white people/margainlised groups), it is more fluid in getting yourself out of poverty/access to social mobility.

All my International friends from Africa to the US are doing better than me, despite us all studying/holding same qualifications. It feels impossible buying a property here despite earning on paper a very decent salary and being a professional. My friends/family abroad all seem to own/build even if they earn less/same.

Once you're paying approx 2K in rent in London (yes you can move out but most people have family/work/community built there),how can you save for a significant deposit with rent, bills, car-note etc? wouldn't most government/policy makers want to help the youth in prosperity since the western world have essentially the systems to make a society less unfair/workable?

I am not saying everyone is poor in this country. It's just a lot of people are suffering needlessly due to mismanagementof the country where only a smaller number get to enjoy life like how it should be.

I actually think it's better to abstain voting than voting the same people/party that have communicated verbally and non-verbally that they do not give a fuck.

Thatcher was not working class - her father was a successful small businessman, active in the local trades groups and I think he became mayor.

Heath's father was a carpenter who later became a business owner. His growing up and background would be much closer to a working class childhood than Thatcher's.

Major's father owned a small business and Major described his upbringing as comfortable.

Not sure when being a local businessman was a working class credential.

All three went to state schools although very few working class girls of Thatcher's era had the opportunity to go to grammar school. Many working class boys were denied the opportunity but working class girls of her vintage would be out at work at 14 to bring some money in.

Stephen Crabb had a decent shot in 2016 until he was caught sending lewd messages to a young girl.

Sajid Javid was a realistic prospect for PM for a while too.

Ultimately MPs are paid far too little. You can earn more on some City graduate schemes. If you come from a genuinely poor background it's a pretty poor option. That's why the House is full of wealthy mediocrities.

The toolmaker story sounded like BS from the start. Did Starmer’s father live in the Bronze Age or something.

This is the man who still cannot figure out if women have make anatomy or not. Nothing he says can be believed. He will change his mind next week.

Theresa May went to
The local Comprehensive and her dad was a vicar was he not? Not sure quite how working class that qualifies as and how affluent vicars are.

Liz Truss went to a comp. She was great, shaved 20-30 billion of the country in a couple of weeks. Got to vote for more of that!

Labour normally have a couple of token deputy's. That's about it. I doubt they'll get in without the support of the papers. Murdoch did a deal with Blair. People have very poor memories and some just can't believe we have a bunch of crooks running the country. And there's that joke about us knowing our place. It's true. Why else would they have voted for a complete fucking idiot.

The Tories haven't really done much on immigration, they've been in for 13 years. But it's a useful thing to holler on about, stoke xenophobia while they give all their mates contracts and further rob the public purse. Just blame all our woes on the aliens, look over there, it's not our fault. Brexit all over again.

There's some romanticism about what the Tories are/were. the existing lot is just the absolute dregs. There's hardly a glimmer of hope. When May looks to be alright you know things are bad.

People are quite tribal too. And some lap up any old story from the press. The Express lauds the government. They buy it. Don't even put two and two together that they have been complete robbed. It's a rigged system, it's like some twisted Stockholm syndrome.

The Tories still probably get the popular vote, even if it is about 30%, that's enough. Given Scotland not being in the hands of Labour, I don't really fancy the chances of any change. But you never know. As the well has nearly run dry, the Tories might just toss what's left over the fence.

Didn't Sajid Javid once say he took a 7 million pound pay cut to become an MP?

Regardless of what kind of family background an MP has, I would really like them to provide evidence of high intelligence, critical thinking, common sense, competence, and breadth and depth of knowledge. A good degree in a rigorous subject from a top university would be some guarantee of some of that. If getting that kind of education stops them from being considered working class, so be it.

When I rule the world, it will be impossible to become an MP unless you've had substantial work experience in an unrelated job, or have many years under your belt of being a carer.

Yes, he grew up poor and then went to Cambridge which is exactly what I was referring to.

The OP said "just someone who has lead a ordinary life like the majority in the U.K".

Thatcher was petit bourgeois lower middle class. Her dad owned a shop.

someone who has lead a ordinary life like the majority in the U.K. - yes, and then showed themselves to be not just an ordinary person. To be an MP and potentially PM you need not just what I mentioned above but also considerable powers of leadership, a tremendous work ethic, lots of energy etc etc. (Yes, I know Boris Johnson had very few of these qualities. Exception that proves the rule.)

If you mean a Labour PM, there’s dozens of threads going back years on the feminism sex/gender boards of people mourning the fact that they’ll have to vote Tory because of Labour’s policies. The issues have been explained many times, eg Labour’s persecution of Rosie Duffield. Labour does not understand that the middle class will not vote for policies they don’t want just because Labour are ‘the nice guys’.

Labour have never won an election without pitching to the middle class, as well as to the working class. They have to unite people around common goals to get enough votes to win. Tony Blair understood that and did it brilliantly. 👏 Angela Raynor and Kier Starmer hate the middle class, refuse to pitch to it, and so cannot win. Raynor has star quality and could easily be a future PM if she’d pitch to the whole country not just people she identifies with. Instead Labour keep stirring up class hate.

I want to vote Labour but I can’t because apparently Kier Starmer’s top priority is to punish people who use private education, and that’ll cost me personally about £40k on top of all the money I already spend trying to fix the damage state school did to my kids.

Starmer went to an elitest grammar school where places are reserved for those with parents who coach their children, that’s incredibly privileged, yet he has a chip on his shoulder about taxing private schools, which will raise peanuts. That plus his ridiculous transgender policies will lose him the election.

It’s so painful to watch.

(And live through.)

Vicars aren't working class. Comprehensives are for everyone.

So, not.

Labour does not understand that the middle class will not vote for policies they don’t want just because Labour are ‘the nice guys’

l live in Sheffield Hallam. Wealthy educated middle class area. We have a Labour mp

Grammar schools are elitist nowadays because there are so few of them in England. Most children who get a place have had a lot of private tutoring in the run up to the 11+. It wasn't like that decades ago. All children in England would have taken the 11+ as a matter of routine and very few would have had any special preparation. Around 25% would have got a grammar school place. It's far less than that now. Also, it would have been Starmer's parents' decision whether or not to accept the offered place, not his. He didn't send his own children to academically selective schools, as far as I know.

I live in an inner city London borough. Our council has almost all Labour councillors and all the local constituencies are solidly Labour. We have an extremely varied population, socially, ethnically, financially. London and university towns are a bit different to the rest of the country.

@Yusay , they are Angela Rayner and Keir Starmer.
I agree with @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g that the grammar schools are elitist now. Parents who can afford tuition will pay for it. A child may miss out on a grammar school because a less able child will get a better result in the 11+.

But it’s a middle class area, and the poster is saying the middle class won’t vote Labour. They do round me. Massive massive houses with Vote Labour signs outside.

The council is shared between Lab, Lib Dem and Green. No overall control, but Green is very high

Yes, our area has extremely high house prices and many little pockets of affluence, and we see those signs too. When I was a child affluent areas mostly went Tory, poor areas Labour, but it's not nearly as simple as that now. Social attitudes have a lot to do with it. There was research done around Brexit that showed that how people voted on that was more closely linked to being socially conservative or progressive than traditional party politics or income levels.

I don’t think we will have a PM anytime soon who is truly working class, because this country is obsessed with class, classism and snobbery are still rife.

I think it's mainly age. I am in my 30s and actually it's not very common for people in my age group to vote Tory. Many of the right leaning people I know now support lib dem instead. Higher earners in their 30s and 40s feel squeezed due to high mortgage and childcare costs. Younger people are also more likely to live in cities but more of them have been moving out to towns to buy property so a lot of traditional Tory areas now have a larger chunk of progressive voters.

The boomers who have paid off their mortgage (aware not all boomers own), it's a different story.

Speaking as someone who is from a working class background...the reasons I'm a Tory are as follows:
Socialism stifles self development and progress...all those mining towns where no one was allowed "to get above themselves ' so they all lived like porpers, despite being the best paid manual workers in the country.
Ditto the destruction of the grammar school system, which removed the main structure of social mobility.
The unions picking and choosing battles...mine own village was a dock and imported bananas for decades...till the dock union went on strike and Barry docks didn't.
The fact that most socialist come from middle class backgrounds and really don't understand what it's like to be bottom of the pile and so come up with great ideas such as multi culturalism, but seem to forget that the indigenous population also had a culture...and to try to express that culture is painted as being racist.
That higher taxes...which socialists seem to like also clobber the poor. It also means the rich don't employ cleaners, gardeners rtf
The Labour party is very keen to promote it's members who seek political office, so the local council in Bristol seems to have a hell of a lot of northerners in safe seats. Who know naff all about the city.
The fact that right wing political parties have taken us out of Europe which may not be popular with people who can own a house in Brittany or work in Europe...but they ain't competing for work or housing with the huge influx of migrants

I am a boomer (just) whose mortgage is paid off. There are loads of us round here. We don't vote Tory. Never wise to oversimplify.

Just curious can you afford £100k for private medical treatment given the Tories have basically destroyed the NHS. Cos that's how much it costs if you have to go privately and you need to get treated for cancer. this is why people from middle class backgrounds vote for labour and other left wing parties because we have something to lose. I have private healthcare but I cannot afford private cancer treatment. Yet I do not have £100k socked away somewhere (as our household income is a measly £130k ), I would have to sell my property to fund my medical treatment (if I get cancer) despite many years of paying the mortgage. I am only 31, can you imagine how much it would be when I reach the age when I would likely need medical treatment?!
.

@Elvis1956 what's a porper?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/27/age-rather-than-class-now-determines-how-britain-votes