Children in pubs

[BreadInCaptivity]

So MN got a mention in this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/01/i-dont-come-here-to-enjoy-other-peoples-children-should-pubs-and-restaurants-be-kid-free-zones?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Which side of the debate are you on?

Personally, after numerous incidents of reasonably rare visits to my local village pub being ruined by parents unwilling to do any parenting I was overjoyed when they banned children under 15 (including the beer garden).

One memorable occasion where the beer garden was utterly dominated by one family of 5 whose children screamed, ran around like headless chickens, knocking over drinks and whose headphone wearing parents barely looked up from their phones until being outraged when told by the landlord to leave.

That said it's also a shame I think having had some fond memories in the past of sitting in a pub garden when the children were small (well behaved/parented and taken home as soon as it was obvious they'd had enough).

Ultimately I think its sad that a few parents seem to ruin it for everyone and allow their children to run riot, but also that it's not inappropriate for some pubs/restaurants to cater exclusively for adults/older children.

Pubs will do what brings in more money. Where I live, that’s from parents coming with children and spending lots of money on food. I haven’t noticed any bad behaviour. But anyone who wants a child-free pub will be disappointed round here - and they aren’t spending enough money to make that a more attractive prospect than the families.

Interesting.

Reading the article, the pubs who have put in age restrictions are doing financially better as a result.

This is also true for my local pub (according to the Landlady) and frankly DH and I visit more often since the change in rules and it's noticeably busier than it used to be.

Because they are in areas where catering for people who want child free pubs (for whatever reason) brings in more money. How much that’s to do with particularly poor parenting in certain areas, I don’t know. That isn’t the case where I live, families having pub lunches is where they are making the most money.

My local is a real ale pub. Kids never allowed in there. It is bliss.

The local Spoons has a play area in the garden, so clearly welcomes kids. But I do think some parents need educating on what "child friendly" pubs mean. It does not mean you can let them run feral around tables. They still need to be well behaved. Somewhere that drinks and food are carried about should not be acceptable places to race about in.
Years ago, for my sins, I went to a Hungry Horse place. A kid kept crawling under my table, and trying to pinch my chips. Parent was sat gazing at their phone and did not care.

If we keep the kids away, they'll grow up not knowing about pubs and then they'll become a thing of the past!

I don’t mind well behaved kids during the day, if they’re having a meal. I don’t think they should be there at all after 6pm.

I don’t understand parents who go on a drinking session with their kids - it’s crap for the kids and not a very enjoyable way for the parents to relax with a drink. Each to their own though.

Depends on the pub doesn't it. The chain pubs are clearly geared towards families with soft play, parks, grabby machines, kids menus. Obviously they aren't going to ban kids and anyone going to one of these pubs should expect a certain amount of noise (not kids running around knocking drinks over etc - can honestly say I've never seen this in any pub though).

Local spit and sawdust / real ale pubs are a bit different. However I have loads of fond memories of visiting our local as a kid playing pool and dominoes. It seems a shame to ban kids completely when the majority do know how to behave.

You would have to be very naive to think an 18 year old won't find out what a pub is on their own lol

I love the pubs that don't have children in. Pubs are awfully boring for people who don't drink so can't imagine they are any fun at all for kids. Selfish of the parents to drag them along.
I remember once I told some children off in the beer garden. The parents came out (they were inside not parenting at all) and intended to confront me but I also berated them for leaving 2 children unattended in a beer garden. This was a not a child friendly pub it did not serve any food at all and the entire outside is a small decked smoking area. They complained to the landlady who happened to be friends with me. The next time I went there was a big sign up saying no children left unattended and no children at all after 7pm.

Many pubs are now completely dependant on their food trade. Without families they will close.

Yes I think this is a fair point.

That said, even child friendly pubs can still be ruined by parents who refuse to actually parent.

I live in a village, there’s a local brewery that has its own bar, but it’s not really like a pub. All the other pubs nearby are geared towards families having weekend lunches, they are country pubs and aren’t chains, and they aren’t putting on loads of entertainment but have climbing frames in the garden. But I’ve never seen bad behaviour from children in pubs here. If people want child free pubs round here they need to make it clear they’ll spend the money to make up for it.

Based on what evidence?

The article (and my local experience) suggests otherwise.

Anywhere that children are allowed you will get bad parenting at some point.

There’s room and demand for both

asking for a friend where are the child free ones

I think children out for lunch or an early dinner is fine, and most parents do the best they can to avoid causing a disturbance/being judged but mostly every parent has a story about thier (usually well behaved) child having an awful tantrum somewhere in public.

When it gets to 7/8pm I think it's fair enough to want an adult only atmosphere in a pub.

I like kids.

I'm happy to have them in a pub.

today there was one big table in the gazebo area outside, with about 10 adults and about 12 kids (young baby to about 11/12 yo girl). It was peeing down & most of the kids were playing in & out if the gazebo getting soaked. All having fun, playing nicely, parents relaxed.

one about 3 came up to me & said 'I'm a bit wet' She was drenched 🤣

there was a couple sitting the other side of the table to me and over & above the huge tables noise all I could hear was fuck/fucking/Cunt. Not aimed at the party, just his usual talking.

i was torn between feeling there were kids there, mind your mouth & it's a pub.

none of our local pubs are beer & sawdust type of pubs, they're all more gastro pubs.

I was a child of the 70s
Kids didn't go in pubs
That's the way it was
My generation are now in our 50s and very much know what a pub is

In my experience it's in the minority though so why ban all families when it's just a few who ruin it? I don't know where all these feral kids are but I have genuinely never encountered kids running round, knocking drinks over etc in a pub or restaurant. I've seen kids kick off and have tantrums and I've heard babies crying. Mostly the parents have dealt with this though and taken the kids outside in really dire circumstances. I just can't imagine any parent sitting there allowing their kids to run riot where other people are eating, drinking and relaxing. If they did I think the staff would have fair grounds to ask them to leave.

I agree, I was responding to the OP’s statement of the obvious “That said, even child friendly pubs can still be ruined by parents who refuse to actually parent.”

you will at some point encounter some bad parenting if you let children and their parents into any place - I’m sure there’s more of this in some places than others, but it doesn’t seem to be a particular problem where I live

To be fair it didn't used to be a problem where I live.

Maybe we just got unlucky with our visits but the change in pub policy suggests otherwise.

It's a medium sized village in a desirable area as the saying goes.

It did seem worse after lockdown- maybe that's an issue? Children not used to being in social environments and parents "unlearning" how to manage that?

As pp's have noted I think most parents have experienced children acting out however diligently you parent. That's fine. I'm the sort of person whose always got a kind word for the mum whose toddler is having a meltdown 😂 - been there!

That's not the behaviour I'm talking about though. A child starting being grumpy in a pub - fine. Been there - but it means it's time to go home.

It's prolonged bad behaviour with no parental intervention.

I prefer pubs without young children. I went for a meal with my rather deaf dad and two parents were there with very young babies who basically screamed for two hours. Parents didn’t once pick them up, walk them around, make any attempt to soothe them and it completely ruined the meal for us.

I don't know that that follows. Pubs are still here today, yet until 1996 children weren't allowed in them. By your argument, my parents generation, my generation and the generation following me wouldn't know about pubs and they would now be a thing of the past.

Our child is older now has gone to pubs since a baby just sat quietly there was no running around but we mainly went during the day or early evening for a meal so probably no longer than an hour or so each time