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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My DM is gaslighting me.

23 replies

helpagalout12 · 01/08/2023 21:09

My relationship with my DM has been going from bad to worse over the past few years.

We used to be extremely close. Things have changed over the past couple of years, various ongoing issues which run very deep and constant arguments. Too much detail for now.

The past fortnight things have escalated from trivial / petty arguments into her now gaslighting me. To give some context…

So she dotes on my children. That’s currently the only thread that keeps any contact between us. She has them a few days per week. I would very (very!) happily put them into after school clubs (term time) and extra nursery / childminder days etc, but whenever I have done that (i.e when things have been bad between us the last couple of years) she argues that I am manipulating her with the kids, not letting her see them. So whilst I am of course grateful of the help- it doesn’t come without strings and the easier option would absolutely be to go NC but that always backfires against me! My DH says just to appease and let her have the kids, that I should not escalate matters and I do myself no favours by not letting her have the kids on “her” days.

So now three examples of her gaslighting in the last fortnight.

1.	For years she has said that my DH should do more to help me. I work long hours in a demanding job and take care of all child related schedules. I do most pick ups and drops during the week other than the 2 days where I am in the office, so my DH will do half of the drops during those two days, with DM doing the rest. Even then for those two days, she has previously made a thing of how DH even gets it easy during the days I’m away as she does half of it. In the last week (in response to a different discussion we were having about schedules) she texted to say that my husband has finally put his foot down with me, that he does the majority of child related pick ups and drop offs and that he has only recently started “making [me] do more”. This is a complete, complete u-turn. Only in March when we were away for (an unbearable) “family” weekend she was telling me to employ some help at home as I need support. This is absolutely toxic and she knows how much I push myself at work and with the kids, she knows this kind of comment would hurt. 

2.	She lives an hour from my kids. My DS has started to complain in recent months about the journey travelling over there, but still absolutely wants to go there and gets very excited about being there. She has started to say that she doesn’t want DS to be “forced” to go there and that I am brainwashing them. I said today that my DS would never in a million years not want to go there but yes he has started to whinge about the journey, which is understandable! 
3.	So now the biggest one. My previous two maternity leaves over the past 4 years, she did not do one single social thing with me during my time off. Don’t get me wrong, the relationship was falling apart so neither of us clearly wanted to spend any time together but there was not one mother/daughter lunch/day out which is so sad considering how we used to be so close, weekends away together, spa days etc. Sure, she has looked after my older kids whilst I was on mat leave (for her “usual”’days- as above- and largely because she wants to) but not once did we have a day out. My SIL is pregnant. She has text me to say that she and my SIL will be planning frequent days out whilst she is on maternity leave and that my DM intends to take my DC along to those days out when they fall on days she has them. I replied saying that she wouldn’t be taking my DC on jolly days out with my SIL, that my (young) DD already thinks the whole situation is odd that her granny does nothing with her own daughter; and that if she wanted to go for days out with my SIL and her child then for her to let me know and I’ll put my DC in clubs/nursery that day. I feel as though she’s using my DC for lovely fun child days out with SIL when she offered absolutely no support or days out with me during my two mat leaves. I totally admit that this cuts deep, is hurtful and I feel sad and lonely about it. She’s my Mum, after all! I only have to see a post on social media these days of friends with their mums having lunch, theatre trips etc and I get totally choked up and immediately have to try to compartmentalise it in my mind. 

I really cannot bear to talk to her. She has taken things to an absolute next level in terms of the most recent mind games. My DD has her birthday party next week. I cannot bear to invite her over to our house, but not doing so would again just escalate matters.

AIBU to feel so low about this. How do I deal with the situation. She is (or has become) a very cold / stony faced woman and so going over to chat just won’t wash. She doesnt soften. When I tried to give her a big hug and a “let’s stop this” kind of embrace at Christmas a couple of years ago it felt awkward and cold, she didn’t soften, no tears, just a weird hug with very little in return.

Aibu to just cut her (and her care of my DC) out completely? I always feel as though I would regret that if anything were to happen to her, but I can simply no longer bear the above. It’s pure toxicity and I need to manage it for my own mental health. I am waking in the night with the sheets soaked through (presumably because of stress/worry about the situation). I feel numb all the time. Nothing gets me excited, sad, happy. I feel as though every emotional fibre of my body has been burnt.

Advice please gratefully received.

OP posts:
Mamette · 01/08/2023 21:14

I would just let her continue contact with the DC, maybe one set day a week she can collect them and have them after school, that’s it.

Tune the rest of the stuff out.

ParisP · 01/08/2023 21:28

Have you asked her to do socials with you? Ask her to the cinema or something? It might just take a little effort on your part to get going.

I think you should let her take your kids to see their aunt.

Makemineacosmo · 01/08/2023 21:45

Honestly? It sounds like this relationship is causing you so much stress it's really not worth it. I would ask your DH to drop your DCs to her once a week (regular day that suits both of you) and I just wouldn't have contact with her anymore. Let your kids see her, but that's it.

Octonaut4Life · 01/08/2023 22:08

Honestly none of what you described really sounds like gaslighting or even a particularly big deal? You said yourself your relationship wasn't in a good place while you were on maternity so it doesn't seem surprising that you didn't hang out socially that much. If your kids enjoy her company and you're happy she's taking good care of them while they're with her then I don't see anything from what you've written that would suggest you should cut contact suddenly. Have you tried being the one putting out olive branches, inviting her to go out socially etc. if that's the kind of relationship you want?

kweeble · 01/08/2023 22:09

Shes not supportive of you; I would see her a lot less and stop carting your children off for an hour each way to see her 3 times a week.

autienotnaughti · 01/08/2023 22:56

Yes agree with others 1 set day a week ideally with your dh collecting. And don't speak to her.

ecuse · 02/08/2023 09:09

You sound really upset about it so I'm sure I am just missing something but I can't say I fully understand what your mum is doing that's so awful here.

Obviously #1 is odd ... That does sound like gaslighting if she's been telling you for years that you doo to much and it's not fair for DH to do less, and is suddenly reversing it. How old is she? Is it possible there's some dementia creeping in there? If not, yes, weird. Have you called her out on it?

#2... I'm confused. You said in your intro that you feel a bit emotionally blackmailed into letting her have the kids 3x a week..but then I don't understand what your complaint is if in response to the kids starting to complain about the journey she says "don't force them to come if they're not enjoying it" ...isn't that the right answer? Sound alike you're over-compensating by pretending they're not sick of the drive when they (and you?) actually are, and she's offering you a get-out. Do you really drive them an hour (round trip? Each way?) 3x a week? That sounds like too much hard work and is in itself a reason to scale back and use after school club more. Can't be helping with your stress and not much fun for the kids. Maybe it's all in the tone of the interaction that we can't see but it sounds like you're being a bit of a martyr bending over backwards to take them when they, and you, don't want to, she's offered you a get-out you've pretended you don't want, and then you resent her for it.

#3 I understand you're sad in retrospect that you were fighting during your mat leaves and so didn't do a lot of mother/daughter stuff. But I don't think there's anything wrong or gaslighting in wanting to take your kids for nice days out with their aunt? It sounds a a bit like you want to stop them going just to spite her? Maybe this is all reasonable because your background relationship is such that the context/tone of this is worse in real life than it is on paper. But at face value my reaction is to think that you either want to have girly days out with her or you don't. You can't go back in time and have those mat leave days out you never had. But you can have days out now if you want. In which case: ask her. If you don't...is there any reason your kids shouldn't (assuming they want to)?

Your points sound a little bit to me like they're not that big a deal in themselves but maybe you're just at the end of your rope with her. In which case, as other posters have said, think about ways to scale it back maybe because if any interaction you have turns into a battle of wills you are going to risk poisoning the good bits of your relationship (if there are any) because you're so cross about the things you don't like. And if there are no good bits: you don't have to make loads of effort to maintain the relationship. You can hide behind the logistical excuse of it being too much with work to do all the driving, scale back the kids visits and do the minimum.

Comtesse · 02/08/2023 09:39

An hour each eay? This is not very practical for childcare.

MzHz · 02/08/2023 10:01

as @ecuse says, it’s one one thing, it’s the whole thing

it’s maddening and that’s what it’s supposed to be from DM’s perspective. The more they can confuse you, the more they get away with, the more control they weird, the more puppetry they create

@helpagalout12 this isn’t going to get better. You know this. I worry that she’ll start on the kids. Her doting on them is the next wave of her campaign against you. She’ll undermine you in their lives and potentially have them side with her and turned against you. Put NOTHING past people like Your mother.

it IS crazy that they spend an hour each way in the car 3x a week. No wonder they’re complaining.

I think you should take the step to focus on creating a better childcare plan, make sure the kids are socialising with kids their own age etc etc. I’d also give her the reason that clearly she’s going to be busy with SIL and as the travel is too much for your kids, you’ll scale things back so that the time is less exhausting for everyone.

ignore whatever jibes she comes up with with fluffy “oh well, yes but that’s what we’ve decided as a family” and shut it down.

MzHz · 02/08/2023 10:07

I say this as someone who clearly wasn’t flavour of the month for my mother, or for any of my family tbh. Whenever I needed support/help they were not there for me. Often taking any opportunity to kick me when I was down.

my sister had similar issues in life to me, all through our lives. She got the worry, the concern, the support, the childcare

when she got divorced and I saw the support she had when I was studiously and obviously ignored. They even went out of their ways to support my abusive and abysmal ex.

it was her hurting my ds that was the last straw.

you know the deal with your mother, you don’t trust her. Listen to that. It’s important

AlisonDonut · 02/08/2023 10:10

I think your son is trying to tell you that he is seeing this behaviour change and you need to pay attention to that.

Seasideanticscanleadtosandybuckets · 02/08/2023 10:12

Imo letting the bomb go off won't be the worst thing that can happen here op. .
Your dc need protecting from her not offered up to save yourself!!
Let dm and sil get on with it. Surely it's sil's turn to appease her should she choose? Or maybe her boundaries are better op?
Your dc are starting to see the real her.. It isn't just the journey that is giving them the sicky feeling I bet.

Sparkletastic · 02/08/2023 12:15

It doesn't sound like gaslighting but it does sound like you and she are far too enmeshed. I'd stop accepting childcare from her and instead see her on a schedule that suits you and the DCs, but with most emphasis on what suits you. Try and disengage. She has far too much to say about you and your life. You need a healthy distance.

billy1966 · 02/08/2023 12:25

I feel for your children among such toxicity.

An hour in the car after school 3 times a week?

Ridiculous.

You sound very stressed and unwell.

Get some counselling.

One visit a week, or fortnight, max, facilitated by your husband.

You desperately need to step away and protect your mental health.

Your children need you well.

cheddercherry · 02/08/2023 12:27

Can you just cut the whole childcare thing out (sounds impractical and an hour each way three times a week will probably impact on the kids). Instead ask her outright to spend days out as a family, she gets to see the kids and you get to have time as a family? If she refuses that then is it really about her seeing the kids, or as you say, holding you to ransom over childcare you don’t even really need?

however, considering how you say it’s impacting you I wonder if really in the long run she’s not going to end up inflicting this behaviour on your kids? What happens when they get slightly older/ teens and don’t want to go to grandmas three times a week, will she emotionally blackmail them in the ways you feel she acts to you? If you’re this stressed all the time then that impacts them in itself, would you all just be happier stepping back even for a break as it’s clearly affecting you.

Bivarb · 02/08/2023 12:58

I disagree with the people telling you to continue to let her see your children. She has no respect for you, her own daughter. Why would you put your own children through that. She may be good to them now, but I'm willing to bet she'll either turn them against you or she will turn against the children soon enough. She already sounds manipulative with them regarding the journey. It seems like she's rubbing in the fact that she can be a good mother figure to your sil. Perhaps she feels hard done by and justifies it to herself.

I would stop the childcare arrangement. Either see her occasionally with the children and see how the relationship is then (any negative behaviour will result in you and the kids leaving early) or cut contact altogether.

helpagalout12 · 02/08/2023 13:07

Sorry to clarify the one hour thing.

Basically it's 50 mins door to door, often there's a stop mid way where we hand over the kids. The littles go there 2 days a week for the full day of childcare. At the end of the day they will go to a park about 20 mins of the journey in, have a play around there, so it's about 30 min return journey in total, I.e it's broken down.

My DS (who is school age) just goes there once a week- after school, has a sleepover (the day DH and I work late) and then is taken to school the next day. It's the return journey that is the painful one for DS as he needs to leave the house at 7:40 for a full day of school!

OP posts:
helpagalout12 · 02/08/2023 13:10

Any views on what I should be doing about the upcoming birthday? My gut is telling me to keep her away, not mention the party (and so that means not inviting a cousin) and just having a small get together without them all. It certainly takes the pressure off the thought of her being here, but likewise I can almost guarantee it'll be thrown in my face that I'm being manipulative excluding her.

OP posts:
Gymnopedie · 02/08/2023 13:29

but not once did we have a day out. My SIL is pregnant. She has text me to say that she and my SIL will be planning frequent days out whilst she is on maternity leave

Yeah, and I would bet my last pot of face cream that when SIL has her baby your DCs will be dropped faster than you can say nappy.

So I would withdraw the contact now instead of letting your DCs discover that they have suddenly become third class grandchildren.

Lovingitallnow · 02/08/2023 13:40

When you were on maternity leave did you not do things the three days she had your kids? Point two makes no sense to me- I feel her response is sensible. I also think she's giving up a lot of time for you guys- I found that as I had more kids I'd see my mom less and less and she'd see my brother more but she'd still be dedicating the same amount of time to my family- it's just I was never there with her. Between doctors appointments and various babysitting we just saw each other less and less b it she'd still be spending hours with my kids.

LittleOwl153 · 02/08/2023 13:52

I would massively cut back on the travelling for childcare. It might make sense whilst they are small but as your eldest is finding school is exhausting enough. Assuming you can afford it clubs that mean they come home at night will make life easier for them. It isn't going to be long before they want to do clubs - scouts, football etc with their friends anyway. I'd rethink from Sept on that basis.

In terms of the birthday - if you can't cope with it then no just do something small with his friends. Let dm do him a little tea party with cousins near the date if she wants.

Clearly this is affecting you badly and you need to out your mental health first.

dapsnotplimsolls · 02/08/2023 14:25

Does your DD want her there at her party?

MzHz · 03/08/2023 07:04

Once they’re at school, parties are for the kids so just sort something for him and some friends.

this is what Fear Obligation and Guilt feels like. That’s why you’re so terrified @helpagalout12

you can do this. This is your life and your children. You don’t owe her anything

back off, back away, distance yourself and drop the rope.

I also think that if you can reset this childcare system now, before SIL dc is born, she won’t bother so much and your family will be better for it.

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