To think he should be kicked out the house?

[Dearly89]

In short, my brother is 28 and still living at home. He is a mess. I think he should be kicked out as he is having an awful effect on my parents' well-being. He is diagnosed with ADHD and depression and is medicated. My parents pay for private healthcare, therapy and a psychiatrist for him but he rarely agrees to go.

I have just moved home after studying and I had no idea how bad it all was.

1. Can’t look after himself and lives in hoarder-style squalor. Think knee-deep in rubbish. He keeps a huge padlock on his bedroom.

2. Doesn’t do his own washing or buy food. If we don't buy him food he will spend £50 a day on takeaways and rack up debt then blame us for not monitoring his finances. If we don't do his washing he will scream and shout that he has no clean clothes and will never change his sheets

3. Racks up debt then relies on parents to pay it off. Has had £18k paid off in total. My parents now have his wages paid into their account and he gets sent £500pm to spend freely. The rest is used to pay off his newest credit card debt. He recently went behind their back and ordered a card for an old account and racked up a £1500 overdraft from buying weed and takeaways after my parents had cleared it off for him.

4. Treats our mum very badly, thinks she is out to get him and claims our parents have 'ruined the country'

5. Lovebombs and treats girls badly, then doesn’t understand why it’s wrong and gets depressed when they break up with him

6. Has no friends/social life, complains he is lonely but never leaves the house. He won't come to anything he is invited to.

7. Bunks off work regularly for mental health. He has at least 1 unplanned day off a week for mental health.

8. Refuses to contribute, feels like my parents owe him this because they are apparently he reason he feels this way. They pay for his car in full (2022 model!) and his fuel costs.

9. As a result my parents are now hiding away from him at their holiday home as much as they can and I am left with him.

I have had the suggestion for help from social services with supported housing but he will not agree to this. He says he is not that bad and without his agreement we can't get any help for him... We can't section him, he hasn't hurt himself or anyone and isn't suicidal. He just doesn't function?

I'm thinking he should just be kicked out and left to his own devices but really not sure. I love my brother I just want him to be happy but I have no idea what to do

Can I just add: I know he isn't well, but he is denial and won't accept the help. At the weekend, he is all fine. But once it hits mid-week when he's meant to be at work, suddenly he's in a depression pit again. Part of me thinks maybe he's just spoilt and lazy but another part of me thinks he's truly incapable because of his mental health. I have no idea because he won't agree to mental health support

Jesus Christ. He’s embarrassing. Literally I’m speechless at this man child. He doesn’t function because your parents have babied him. He’s a grown man, why are they paying for his car? Literally dump his stuff in bin bags and change the locks. He works, so can rent a room, or stay in a hotel/BnB until he gets a grip. He’s 28 not 18.

I feel like you’re looking at things from a very black and white perspective and have come to a naive conclusion. EG He’s not “bunking off work” by taking mental health days, he clearly sounds mentally unwell when you give the whole picture. I’m sure his company will be going through attendance management with him, he won’t get away with constantly missing work, he’ll get sacked…

my question is why don’t you move out? Your parents aren’t intending to change this arrangement, you can’t force them to. Sometimes you just need to remove yourself from a situation and move on with your life.

Having depression and ADHD isn’t an excuse for his behaviour. I have them and am medicated for them. I still function like a normal human being. Your brother is a giant baby that is taking advantage of your parents. Kick him out.

Because his parents are part of the problem, if not the cause.

Hiya, my parents do want to change it. They're desperate and leaning on me for answers. I could move out I guess but I'm now studying a masters degree near home so I'd struggle. He's not affecting me that badly, we get on really well. I'm more posting on my parents' behalf

I cross-posted with you OP.

What was he like at 18? After uni? Five years ago?

Lucky your parents having both of you back at home. 🙄

He took a car on finance then was unable to make the payments on top of all his other debt so begged them to take it over... whenever they ask him to contribute he goes on a huge rant about the cost of living crisis, how the UK is doomed and how he can't afford to contribute anything. If he doesn't have the car, he can't work and so on etc. Vicious cycle.

It’s unfair for your parents to put that on you, they already know what they need to do. They absolutely do not need their other child to tell them, which also makes you look like the bad guy in the process?

legally he’s an excluded occupier so your parents just need to give him reasonable notice to leave (could be 1 week or 1 month etc it is not defined in law). If he doesn’t move out by then, they can remove him and change the locks, he doesn’t have any housing rights essentially. Could be worth going through his options with him for private rent or more supported accommodation to help him adjust. He may need to find storage for all his hoarded possessions.

Ultimately I don’t think moving out will be a sink or swim moment for him, he sounds incapable of standing on his own too feet and will likely spiral further. He has to want to change for himself. To start with, your parents need to reinforce boundaries and stop bailing him out. If he gets into debt, he needs to face to consequences etc

He's mentally unwell. He needs support. He's not going to ask for it, because he's mentally unwell.

He needs practical help.

It's a bit hypocritical to complain he's living off them when you're still at home because you chose to do a masters rather than enter the workplace, so your parents are funding you too.

I agree he needs practical help.

Help him budget his money so he can pay for his things himself, petrol, pay his own debt off.

How does he meet girls if he doesn't leave the house or have any friends? Can he be helped to meet friends?

Bunking off work for MH I think is pretty harsh as he does clearly sound very unwell.
People who are really poorly don't see what they are doing as being wrong.

I don't think all of this can be explained by his diagnoses.
A lot of this is a failure to grow up and take responsibility for decisions and this has been enabled by your parents.
I would start by giving him a deadline when they will no longer find the car. Explain they are not going to pay his debts after x date. Ask him to rent privately by x date etc.
I have a second cousin who was winked like this. He's got no friends and lives in squalor at 55, still having tantrums and holding his poor elderly dm to ransom. Your brother will end up like this

My biggest fear as a mother is producing someone as utterly fucking useless as this.

What a way to talk about someone with a disability. Hopefully your kids won't be as fucking lacking in compassion as you are.

OP he is disabled, some people with disabilities struggle with things like cleanliness, managing money, living alone, making friends.

It's poor form to start a thread encouraging everyone to insult your disabled brother because his disabilities prevent him from functioning like you do.

It's on your parents, not you. They're enabling him.

I think you should move out and leave them to it, because you engaging with it as well is unlikely to do anything but add to the number of people running around after him.

Hiya, he went to uni then dropped out and didn't tell anyone. He got evicted after Flatmates complained about his hygiene and the way he was living so he has been here ever since.

I'm only back for a year then moving to London with the boyfriend, so at least they can have a little more peace! I get on very well with both parents and my brother but keen to get out and have my own space again once I'm qualified to be honest.

Just to be clear I am fully self sufficient. My parents do not want rent when I offer because I am a student. I have always worked, I look after myself, pay my own bills, buy and cook my own food, do my own washing, clean the entire house weekly etc.

Thank you! I definitely understand that, I have ADHD too, so does my mum. We are both diagnosed. I know these are all ADHD symptoms but he won't accept any help even though it's massively affecting his life

The issue is that he's going to wear them down with stress and anxiety, when they should be enjoying the twilight years of their lives. Yes they've enabled it, but living like isn't fair.

Could you involve social services? Going from the angle that your parents are vulnerable and also being financially abused by him. Because the reality is that they are.

He's your brother, he's the son but that doesn't give him the right to terrorise them, whatever mental health issues he has.

Hiya,
He goes on dating apps and meets girls. Jumps into relationships really quickly, throws all his happiness into them. When the relationship ends, he falls into a deep depression for weeks. 3 girlfriends in the last 5 months. I have said he needs to find love within himself before trying relationships but I know how hard that can be. He has shown quite toxic and controlling behaviour towards girls before and has cheated on the most recent girlfriend. He never thinks he is in the wrong though and doesn't understand why anyone could be upset. If he isn't in a relationship, he never leaves the house. If he is in a relationship, we are constantly hoping it goes well so he can stay happy.

OP, I have a brother like this but more socially adept. He claims it is his MH (he definitely has a legit diagnosis) - but unfortunately for him I work in MH and know that it does not explain his poor behaviour. The problem here is that your brother is immature and entitled, and rotting his brain with weed - kind of like mine was/is. My brother would then explode and rant to stop anyone holding him accountable, or he would try emotional blackmail, etc etc. Your parents need to cut him off and stop bailing him out. There is a really good chance if you do this he will never want to speak to any of you again. Or he may get it. I hope it is the latter. My brother has not spoken to any of us for 10 years. I meet the people all the time who tell me how great he is, so fun at the pub. They haven't seen him stealing from his family, then threatening and abusing them when found out. Frankly at this point, I am happier not having any contact with him.

Advise your parents to contact the local branch of Mencap or a SEND charity in your area. They will be able to signpost them to appropriate support. Have they had a care assessment done and does he receive Pip for his neurodiversity? If he does, then your parents should be able to claim carers allowance or carers credit.

https://www.carersuk.org/

https://www.adhdfoundation.org.uk/

A daughter studying a masters for a year, who contributes wholly to the house, is very different to a 28 year old son who screams at my mum for buying him the wrong type of tango or asking for his washing

Hiya, I get that. He has said he wants zero contact with my parents when he moves out. When he left, did he not struggle? I am worried if left on his own that he will get much worse but my parents are at the point now of leaving him on his own. I think if anything we need to arrange some sort of in-home mental health care/cleaning service for him weekly and for one of us to check in on him regularly if he leaves?
Even then, he can't support himself financially because he rarely goes to work but he will not accept any help from the council for disability :(

@Dearly89 yeah it's different because one of you is very mentally unwell

Making him homeless would hopefully trigger support to be put in place. It needs to be done with warning to housing authorities/his GP and happen earlier in the week rather than end of week when things are winding down. It will feel a bit like free fall initially and fraught but your parents must sit tight and state they cannot accommodate him/meet his needs/cope. This change can be positive for a young person long term, with hiccups on route and learning, forcing them into semi independence.