Is the whole ’incel’ thing more about the mindset, rather what it used to mean..?

[MrsStrangeViews]

I.e single men who didn’t have sex/girlfriend?

I see people mentioning incels more and more, and about angry men, who might feel entitled to women, but a lot of time angry/misogynystic/violent men do have girlfriends, wives , kids, so make it about ’celibate’ men doesn't make any sense.

So when people do talk about incels, do they mean angry/misogynystic men in general?

Me too, this is quite odd to be honest. I know plenty of people who struggle or simply do not want to have a relationship. Many are autistic (or certain show traits of ASD), I’ve never assumed they’re incels. In fact many are asexual, they do not seek to have any romantic companions at all. I know a couple of people in asexual relationships. I’m sure the youth have a label for it but my old fogey self can’t remember it. They’re not angry humans at all, incel is specifically a term for people (in the majority men) who want sex as an object and think their primal need for it overrides all human emotion or intimacy. They use misogyny and patriarchy ideology to push these views as a mainstream agenda. Which is not difficult really, even millions of non-incels hold very conservative and sexist beliefs about women and their role in society and pretty twisted ideas about sex in general.

Yeah I did say genuinely nice.

Incels is a bigger thing because it's usually very easy for any woman to get sex.

Language evolves.

The term was actually originally coined by a woman and surprise, surprise was commandeered by men.

So the original meaning has evolved to include misogynist, women hating men, who may also be in relationships.

With the invention of social media, language changes happen much quicker.

I have to agree with this.

Also incel ideology isn't about attractiveness. I'm sure we can all remember certain TV shows that evidence there is somebody for everybody.

Take a look at 'incel hero' Elliot Rodger
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43892189

This is a very concerning culture, and women are being killed. It is not about shy, awkward men.

You're an incel aren't you?

People are all individuals. What makes an incel an incel is a sense of hate fuelled entitlement. Average Joe/Jo on the street would love to date Henry Cavill/Margot Robbie but accepts they are just a crush and a fantasy. An incel will, with a real sense of spite, blame these individuals and call them "Chad" or a "Stacy" or whatever the equivalent is and say hate filled things aimed at them as the reason why they can't get a date. They see sex as transactional and very much think because they were nice or bought them a coffee they should receive sex in return.

Incels won't "demean" themselves to dating someone like them they have a very overinflated sense of self worth and very much see themselves as worthy of Margot Robbies time. If a woman is nice to an incel the incel will see all the wrong signals and get themselves wound up in a frenzy if they're turned down. Everyone else gets a bit sad and moves on.

But naturally with all this in mind the only people who are to blame in all this are women. Because we turn incels down so naturally it's all our fault.

Also agree so strongly with this

Okey, this actually makes sense.
That it has now become mostly a buzz word, and many, or most people don’t even know what it actually meant.
So they use it when it’s not appropriate or as an quick insult.

I do not feel I have seen this term used when it isn't appropriate. I've haven't seen people call a man who is awkward and unattractive but perfectly nice and respectful to women an incel, which is what you seem to be inferring. I've only seen people call them that when their attitudes fit the description.

I don't think that we should just be using the generic term "misogynist" instead. People can be misogynistic without being an incel - this is a specific set of beliefs that comes from bitterness that women reject them sexually. I suppose a man can have that mindset whilst having a wife and kids, as his views may have been shaped before he managed to pin the unlucky lady down.

Either you lack comprehension skills or you're being deliberately difficult.

It has a very clear meaning and incels are seen as a dangerous movement that is capable of carrying out acts of domestic terrorism.

I agree with the oxymoron point of this word.

To me, (to 'thesaurus' each root), it means not able to have the opportunity to have sex/a relationship.

This could mean just an ugly man... he has no choice in his lack of sexual opportunities.

I think in male forums, it is used as more a badge of bitterness, while in many female forums, it simply refers to anyone that disagrees with, or stands up to a woman (after all, they MUST be a misogynist!).

Either way, it's a corrupted slur, and I think it is often used as an argument-winner word, like misogynist, like racist, like homophobe... in that it may or may not be true, but it puts that person on the defensive, because it ralies others in the forum to the cause.

@C1N1C "while in many female forums, it simply refers to anyone that disagrees with, or stands up to a woman (after all, they MUST be a misogynist!)."

I have NEVER heard it used like this. Never. It's a word with a very specific meaning, referring to a member of a very dangerous group. There have already been violent acts committed in its name-and I am sure there will be more.

An Incel is not just a man who cannot find someone to have sex with him. It's a man who thinks that he has the right to have sex, and that sex should be evenly distributed so all men "get a go."

this^
it's about seeing women as a resource that men ought to be able to access as they please.

I've never seen incel used out of context, say just as an insult aimed at an ugly man who is single. Never.

I agree with @Fimofriend

Yes.
And some of the men who hold these views are in relationship or married.

And for thise who say they haven’t seen it used as an insult:
I have.
Otherwise I wouldn’t have started this thread.

Oh FFS op.

It is someone who is BOTH a misogynist AND a single man who can't get laid.

Neither have I

If you consider it like a Venn diagram, you have the circle of men who can't get women to have sex with them, and you have the circle of entitled, angry, misogynist men. The place where the two intersect is where the Incels are.

@MrsStrangeViews
"And for thise who say they haven’t seen it used as an insult:
I have.
Otherwise I wouldn’t have started this thread."

Where do you see it? On here?

But men in relationships are not incels. Incels are specifically bitter about not being able to get a girlfriend, at least not one that they feel is worthy of them. All incels are misogynists. Not all misogynists are incels.

I've been on a Google deep dive about this and it seems Incel is seen as an extremist ideology and there appears to be extensive safeguarding training on how to identify boys who are at risk of going down this path.

So no. It's not a casual insult.

Yep, it was a subject in my PREVENT training

1. That's a fictional character and situation = it means nothing vis a vis real life.

2. I suspect that the BBC puts various characters and plotlines into its dramas and soaps in order to convey certain messages. Hopefully all are for your own good. I mean, the BBC are our friends. Aren't they?