To think it’s ironic that Heathrow will be inside ULEZ

[KajsaKavat]

Considering how much the airplanes pollute…

Arguable really.

It's somewhat extreme.

Still, it gives a likely real world scenario that will be encountered, because you would never be able to afford to run the non compliant car in the zone in the first place.

And I'm still not convinced that say a 2015 small engine diesel would be more polluting than a large 2006 engine petrol, even if they were driven equivalent miles in the zone.

That’s it! What is compliant and what isn’t makes no sense a lot of the time.

If it was about air quality there wouldn't be a charge. There would be a period for phasing out non compliant cars and allowing people to replace them. This is about money pure and simple. And it comes down to people who need cars to travel such as care workers and shift workers but can't afford to replace them compensating for middle class people now working from home and not contributing to TFL revenues which have to be replaced. It's disgusting and duplicitous.

It's ironic that people won't acknowledge that this was on instruction of Government as a condition of additional funding following the crashing revenues due to Government decisions to lockdown during Covid.

Agreed. Obviously Khan supports it, but if anyone in Uxbridge voted for the Tory candidate as a way to vote against this policy then they're a fool. It was this government that required London bring the policy in.
Absolutely ridiculous that labour doesn't bring this up.

How far into Heathrow? Car parks on the outside of the zone will do a roaring trade.

It depends on the technicals of the engines unless you can go part by part comparison then it may be that older parts are what's causing the problem rather than a newer but bigger engine having better tech to refine and eliminate any or reduce the pollution.

The HS2 lorries rumbling through Harefield aren't exactly clean either but that's ok

From Google

"Do older engines pollute more?

As a result of continuing progress on regulations, the air-polluting emissions of new passenger vehicles currently for sale are thankfully much lower than those of older vehicles. However, the emissions from older vehicles still produce significant air pollution."

It seems even a bigger car that's newer and has better technology can be more environmentally friendly than an older and less effective technology engine.

My dps 3litre 2004 car is exempt so they have to be pretty old and polluting to be charged if petrol, diesel's is a different story, I believe it's to do with particular pollutants

She didn’t die from the emissions from cars, sadly it’s the N2O and particulate emissions from busses and lorries that caused her death.

ULEZ is what it says on the tin, ultra low emissions. It’s got nothing to do with fuel efficiency.

After the ULEZ was introduced, and again after the first expansion, revenue from the charge quickly reduced, as people switched to compliant cars or other forms of transport. It is envisaged the same will happen again. Plus the scrappage scheme is taking a lot of money. So it really isn’t a money-spinning thing. It’s about the health of Londoners, the poorest of whom are disproportionately affected by air pollution, even though they contribute the least to the problem.

Had the government decided to support the scheme, as it has in other cities, eg by making funds available for scrappage, this could be a lot more generous, easing the burden on those affected. Unfortunately, they’ve decided not to do so. They’d rather play silly bugger juvenile politics, because the Mayor is Labour, rather than protect the health of Londoners. It’s absolutely disgusting.

You are comparing apples and oranges. ULEZ is about improving air quality in London by encouraging people to replace cars which produce harmful particulates which kill kids. Aircraft generate tonnes of Co2 which contributes to climate change (also a problem but not connected). HTH.

The best ridiculous example I have seen so far is Hampton Court Palace. The entrance to the car parks is outside the zone. Hooray. However if you want to leave......the exit is in the zone and you have to pay. I suspect they may have to realign their car parks!

I swear I know more about ULEZ from having it reported every day in mainstream media than the clean air scheme and charges where I actually live. I agree something needs to be done as the air in London is seriously grim, I'm not convinced this is the solution as not everyone can afford to replace their vehicle, but perhaps it slots into the- better than nothing category? Unless there are better ideas that will see real results around?

Let's hope he gets booted out at the next election.

Do lorries and buses have to pay if they're not compliant?

Sooooo stupid

Yes.

They're covered by LEZ (same size as the upcoming expanded ULEZ) which has been in place since 2008.

The charges are substantially higher than for cars

No irony here, local people have to suffer enough from noise etc, at least some small improvement is worth having.

There are these things called trains that go to Heathrow.

How fortunate that Heathrow is so well served by the Tube!

I always get public transport to the airport if possible. But even I draw the line at three night buses, four hours travel time with luggage, for a 4.15 check in. That one I did by car.

The car is a diesel we were told to buy 10 years ago as it was more eco. It’s running well, and it’s environmentally better to run it until it dies than scrap it (no one will buy it, for obvious reasons).

The ULEZ incentivises us to scrap it and buy a new (to us) one. We can afford it, but it feels wasteful.

ULEZ really isn’t a money maker! This is a crazy myth.
it’s extremely expensive to administer, and revenue is (hurray!) plummeting as people stop using older dirtier cars.
Of course there are some stupid cliff edges - there always are. Not in Khan’s control.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat

*Tax airplane fuel the same way you tax the residents of London.

For info introduce a Heathrow Aviation fuel tax and all the airlines will do is what as known as "tanker"...fly in with excess fuel.

That means plan to land with more than required, so example for Long Haul land with 25 tonnes instead of 5 on their flights into Heathrow so as to reduce fuel uplift for the next sector or even avoid taking on fuel at Heathrow at all.

Result would be no great increase in income for Heathrow/London and a net increase in emissions on all the inbound sectors due to the increased aircraft weight.

Yes the LEZ- that is a major change since poor Ella passed away in 2013. London City busses and lorries (ie rubbish trucks) used to be exempt right up until 2015.

It wasn’t her death that brought the LEZ into being, theyd started implementing the LEZ in 2012 but it was a gradual phasing in over the next four years with busses being switched out in 2015-2016.

Tougher LEZ standards were introduced in 2021 to bring them in line with the standards for cars.