To be confused about the classes?

[eleusis]

Maybe I'm just a dumb foreigner. But I can't quite work out the difference between working and middle class. Don't middle class people work? And don't people who work generally fall somewhere in the middle of the class system?

I was accused of being upper class yesterday, which I'll have you know has amused me to no end.

I don't think foreigners ever do quite get it, eleusis - don't worry about it.

Oh, lighten up, cold islander. 'tis just a lighthearted joke.

Don't you think it's funny that I could be accused of being upper class?

is this another thread about another thread?

Ok, from one dumb foreigner to another.
I've lived here 16 years and I'm only just getting my head around it.

DH (English) says what I think most English people would say, that 'working class' means that you work for your money, you didn't inherit it. DH says that 'middle class' are people who work, but probably inherited some money to get them started in life, or else their parents' money helped them achieve their successes (like if they went to private school) and most importantly, they have social 'influence'. So a GP, writer, lawyer or teacher (the type of people who can sign your passport application) are 'middle class'. But ordinary working folk (even if they're engineers, entrepeneurs or designers) are still working class.

And it all comes down to the environment you grew up in, you don't change within your lifetime.

Therefore, Philip Green is working class, and Richard Branson is middle class, because of their origins, the millions they're worth now aren't relevant... er, not how I think of it, but how many people do!

Well your children look rather upper class in your profile pic but also rather victorian. They are lovely btw.

I'm classless. Definitely not working class or middle class.

I'll have you know I have not quoted anyone, and I am not referring to any specific posters or posts.

I'm just a puzzled foreigner, but apparently we are all puzzled.

I am of the class called Foreigner all the rest is highly amusing, particularly all the aspirational stuff

I don't get it all really either... my mum refers to people as upper, upper middle, middle or 'lower' (rather than working ) and she judges it by haircut/car/house/income/job/how may degrees if that helps

Upper classes don't need to work as they have high income from investments.
Middle classes work or own businesses and send 3 or more children to private schools.
Working classes work but for less money.
Underclass is disenfranchised

Oh fuck, have I put my kids up on the internet?!?!?!

All of us are in the dark these days when it comes to classes. We all make it up to suit.

I am a foreigner too Elusis. But married to an Englishman so I've apparently taken on his social class which apparently is middle class. But how you work it out I have no idea.
Although we were doing a family tree for DD2's halfterm homework and MIL dug up a few honourables and admirals from a couple of generations back on her side and was a bit disappointed when we said we weren't putting titles in. So that will be why FIL calls me a bogtrotter I expect. No appreciation of the social niceties and fated never to learn, because of an accident of birth.

That was a vintage dress up pic in which they appear to be angels but are in fact complete hoodlems.

It doesn't have much (if anything) to do with money, actually, OHT

What? You took on your husband's class. That sounds rather... well... Victorian. And my DH is from Brum, so I think I'll keep my Chicago roots in tact, thank you very much.

So, working ranks below middle in the pecking order?

I always thought working hard was something to be proud of.

I said 'apparently' Eleusis. I mean that is how I am told the British class system works. I never said I'd taken on his nationality though - I wouldn't dream of going that far. When I die you'll find Bogtrotter written on my heart.

Technically your class is based on your profession - there's a categorisation scale for social class, whether you do unskilled manual labour, skilled manual labour, middle managerial etc.

In the broadest terms you're described as working class if you do a manual job (be it unskilled such as packing in a factory, or highly skilled such as being an electrician).

You would be middle class if you worked in a managerial/professional occupation.

Upper Class people are born into it, not sure how it works technically, probably something to do with inheriting something.

A lot of the time class gets thrown around on her, but what people really mean is income.

A plumber earning £70k a year would still be working class while his bank manager counterpart on £20k a year (or whatever they earn) would be middle class.

Socciologists generally agree that your class does change according to the profession you enter - hence the phrases "upward and downward mobility"

more to the point what is a Bogtrotter? sounds quite rude

Working class r always proud of their origin.
Middle class is definitely embarassing.
Upper class are above caring as long as you're one of them, too.

I was wondering that too, SFX. Dumb foreigners unite!

Does no one else think these classes and rules are a part of history? This all seems so old fashioned to me. Surely you are what you make of yourself in this life.

Okay, if you want to be king, you probably have to be born into it. But, surely anyone can aspire to Prime Minister. Anyone can build an airline. Anyone can engineer future of carbon free transportation.

That's the academic view, Bang, but the majority of ordinary people (so, common attitude) cling to the idea that one's class is set in stone almost from birth (think Edwardian times when there really was almost 0 social mobility).

Coming from the USA I find it all absurd, but it's somehow disloyal to imply you could/would ever change your class. French friend says the class obsession is one of the things the French find most baffling about the English, too.