To think it's time to attempt geoengineering? (things like blocking out the sun...)

[FloorWipes]

I think more of us are coming to the realisation that climate change is getting bad and affecting our day to day lives. We can see it's not predictable and at risk of getting much worse very fast.

At the same time, cutting global emissions is going painfully slowly and we've already built up so much CO2 in the atmosphere that a lot of warming is already baked in. Meanwhile our government is making almost no signs that we are adapting to cope with the coming extreme weather. The overall inertia is quite staggering.

So is now the time for us to move towards geoengineering? By which I am mostly thinking of different ways of blocking solar radiation, as well as the less controversial goal of removing CO2 from the atmosphere.

On the one hand, it is a risky and mad idea but on the other hand we are definitely screwed anyway.

Thoughts?

The problem is you can never discount natural processes, so let's say we engineered some solution to lower the global temperature by 2C, and then a giant volcano went off and lowered it by another 2C there would be an ice age and we would have some serious issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

It's a climate crisis , yes let's just tuck it away and deal with another day. Fgs, that's why we're in the mess we're in because no one is really facing up to it

I admit there's risks but there may also be ways to mitigate some of them. The risks of inaction may be greater.

Reading

To my simple making untested changes to our environment with possible unintended consequences to solve a man made problem seems bonkers.

Much better to actually cut emissions and undertake adaptation now. And as we can't even manage that not sure geoengeering is good idea

I agree

It's like people need something to panic about because their actual lives are so meaningless.

This is going to be it for the next 5 years though, absolute panic about mostly normal weather events, or events that are due to bad planning.

My local area has started to get flooded when it rains heavily, and obviously the panickers put it all down to the climate catastrophe. In fact, it is due to the drainage systems being altered (fucked up) from a large new road being built and the fact the council no longer dredge the river (austerity).

We are entering an era where every event has a 'climate emergency' attached to it. Even though the Greek forest fires were arson, even though the forest management in Greece has been appalling, it is the climate of course dummy.

It's going to be unbearable, the media can create the storm (pun intended) literally in days.

Considering the harm that's already been done, it's ridiculous to think that interfering even more would be a good thing.

As they say, the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Fucking about with the climate rather than adapting to what will be inevitable change would be one of those paving stones.

Never heard of it I admit, but haven’t we done enough messing around….

We will eventually become extinct and the planet will die.
There are much easier ways to help, eat vegan a few days a week- I can’t tell the difference between cow milk /butter and vegan and neither can my carnivorous DD and DH. Stop having so many children, cost of living may mean people think twice. But people don’t want to, god forbid they don’t drink cow milk and eat animals/ we consume too much, obesity is a huge problem.
Scientists have said cancer etc will be a huge future issue/crisis.

Microplastics are in our food.

AI will mean job losses, I think some kind of universal basic income may come in. It’s being trialled £1600 a month in some places. Not really sure of the ins and outs.

I honestly think we’ve screwed ourselves at this point. There will be war over land and food, who knows when, maybe not soon but one day.

Countries that rely on tourism will lose money, they’ll be too hot to travel to, never mind dangerous. I bet people returning from Greece are looking at Spain… that’ll drive prices up.

Billionaires and millionaires - may be ok if they’re preppers- in there underground bunkers🤣

I think the human race is here for a good time, not for a long time- that’s the mentality. Like watching ‘Don’t look up’. Denial.

What about scaling up projects like this one? I think this is fascinating but have no idea how scalable or even how much impact it’s likely to have.

https://justdiggit.org/

we need the vit D from the sun, its free!

We are here because previous politicians and corporations chose an easy, short term solution over the long term good. Blocking out the sun would just be more of the same.

We need to stop doing that. The human race needs to clear up its own mess, and stop creating more mess.

You are in complete denial. I'd put up charts showing the rapid warming but doubtless you'd blame the local council or some such

I'm sometimes in denial myself to be honest.

Well, no.

If a child kept breaking an expensive thing, you'd take it away until they learned to behave better, not come up with 'fixes' that don't address the root cause of the issue. I think the same concept applies to humanity living on Earth. If we can't take care of our home, we don't deserve to be living here.

Humanity as a whole is a scourge on the planet. At this point, we deserve what we get. We could be doing better, but we're not. If you were to begin talking about addressing some of the root causes of the issue I'd listen, but you want to stick a plaster over a gaping wound. It's not good enough.

You just need a LOT of people doing a LITTLE thing (turning tap off when brushing teeth, recycling, thoughtful buying behaviour, taking the bus/cycling/walking for short journeys rather than a car) rather than a small amount of people doing a LOT (going vegan, grow own food, electric car and solar panels).

If we all do a little bit properly, it will make a massive difference - and it's not at all difficult.

I think all governments should be focussing on tree planting (now not in years time). Imagine how many trees could be planted in the UK alone of every farmers field was bordered by trees, every new house built had to have a small tree planted in the garden before sale, every playpark had a new tree planted, every school had to plant a new tree, more motorways were bordered by trees etc etc. Could be millions of trees in the UK alone without any need to take up huge swathes of land. Then if every country did similar, what a difference it would make.

Other countries won't comply though. Look at what's happening to the Amazon rainforest and China don't give a stuff.

Before the forest fires in Greece, the temperature at the Acropolis in Athens reached 48 degrees and it closed to tourists due to extreme heat for the first time in history. It's not just summer; it isn't normal. It's climate change and it's a very real crisis.

Humans are quite good at solving engineering problems when we are right up against a crisis, like a world war so I think we might just manage to salvage something of the environment.
I do think we are going to have to do both carbon capture and artificial cooling as well as reducing CO2 output. Neither enough on their own.
AI ( although I'm against some of its applications) will probably help massively speed up the calculations needed to model the effects of interventions so that's a positive
Planting trees is not a panacea, disturbing the soil releases a surprising amount of CO2 from the soil and it takes years for the sapling to recapture it so it's a net CO2 increase for a long time
Capturing carbon in soil and restoring wetlands is probably faster. Natural regeneration of forests rather than planting is good though.
The possible collapse of the gulf stream has spooked me a bit I must admit.

It's not going to be possible to deal with this. People and countries are on different pages. You can't bring everyone together, they won't cooperate due to greed and politics.

I’m sure this is how Snowpiercer began

If such a technology was developed it wouldn't be long before it was being used for nefarious means. What better way to blackmail governments than by threatening to use technology which could block out the sun, causing crops to fail.

All sounds a bit tinfoil hat I know but one thing I have learned in life is the law of unintended consequences. And also that humans are more than capable of all kinds of horrible things.

Thanks for expressing this all so well.

I am similarly spooked by the gulf stream research reports.

20 companies are responsible for a third of the world’s carbon emissions. 70 million brits turning off the tap and taking the bus is a proverbial drop in the ocean.

I do think an overall reduction in consumption is vital though. But even though I’m aware of it I can’t say I’m making many steps towards it. The only things I do of any use are not eat meat and rarely use the car 🤷‍♀️ probably all undone by regularly buying plastic bottles of coke 🤦‍♀️

We live in a world where people will put plastic carpet in place of a lawn because they’re too lazy to deal with grass and/or need a “perfect” look.

We’re utterly fucked.

Same people will say, “oh yes we should definitely plant more trees” 🙄

As for any kind of geoengineering - the law of unintended consequences is inevitable, it my view.

There’s too much money involved in everything. What’s the point in changing plastic bottle cap designs to keep the lid on? When we’re at the stage where we need to say: nobody needs plastic bottled drinks. End of. Law change.