To think they shouldn’t get a dog

[LabelleLabelle]

My brother is a single dad with 2 primary aged DC and he has promised to get them a dog. I had a dog who I know they loved although they only saw Ddog occasionally and they were not really that great around Ddog. They did not listen when I told them ddogs boundaries and would always invade his space but as he was a good dog he was tolerant but I was always v nervous about it. I was always ddogs advocate due to this mismatch and tried to teach the DC dog body language but I’m not sure this worked so I would judge it and constantly watch and put Ddog away from them for everyone’s sake if they visited and it wasn’t going well. I think DB thought I was just being annoying doing this and being uptight.

My Ddog was a rescue when I got him so wasn’t trained by me from a puppy and had his own dog instinct habits and behaviours, like not leaving dropped food (and getting sick from it sometimes) and barking at other dogs on walks. DB thinks a puppy will be different. Whilst I agree to some extent you can train a puppy this will not work if the DC think it’s their dog, as they will expect to train it to do what they want it to do and it’s going to cause tension.

All the Dc ever wanted to do is hold the dogs lead, kiss the dog on the head, cuddle the dog, pick up the dog and make the dog play with them but on a couple of occasions they dropped the lead I had to be the big bad Aunty and say they couldn’t hold the lead anymore as they were not old or responsible enough and didn’t listen. They also would over excite dog or not realise when he had enough and was tired and keep trying and trying to make ddog play when he didn’t want to. They would drop food on the floor all the time or wander around eating food when I asked them to be careful. They were not able to just sit with the dog near them they had to always touch it or make him play. They are just kids I know I am explaining that it was a big job to be in between ddog and the DC.

DB has also dog sat another dog for a short while so he thinks they are ready to get a dog as the DC enjoyed it. Yes they just enjoyed walking the dogs mostly and holding a lead and throwing a ball. They squabbled and whinged about taking turns to hold the lead all the time. DB lives in an apartment which I think is not a good idea either. I’ve told DB you should never get your children a dog, it would be his dog and his responsibility. they need constant adult supervision all the time and to be properly trained by an adult not by small DC to be their kissing and play toy the dog can end up with undesirable habits and behaviours. dogs have instincts some of which you will never fully train out of them so it’s a constant job to be reminding the dog of what you are asking (to leave something you don’t want it to have).

Dogs need far more than unconfident and unskilled lead walks by DC who don’t understand dogs and it could be really dangerous for the DC and the dog. Dogs also sleep a lot, need their own space and are not always wanting to play and the novelty will wear off leaving DB with another child to deal with. Dogs are also expensive to care for and Db doesn’t really have that much money. He doesn’t really want to listen to me though 😟

OP, do you think your brother would be more receptive to your point of view if you emphasised the amount of hard work that dog ownership involves? Or the costs - especially vet costs? I don’t think you’re likely to get anywhere if your main argument involves criticising his parenting.

Is he usually a Disney Dad? The breed he gets us really important. Some dogs do like constant touch, snuggles and play, my GC's dog does. He shouldn't get one but there's nothing that you can do, so perhaps help with choosing the breed, rather than just being against it?

I’m not extrapolating from the dog, I’m extrapolating from the feckless brother and children who don’t listen to instruction. The family, while no doubt lovely, is apparently not suitable for training a dog.

You are right but it's none of your business.

I’ve not really criticised his parenting to his face I did just talk about the money side of things and responsibility. I suppose it’s hard for me that my dog just died and he is going to get a puppy as a replacement for himself!

I feel pissed off I feel like it’s a bit insensitive I won’t lie. I’m not getting another dog because it cost me a lot of money in things that ended up not covered by insurance, it was so stressful. I am more financially stable than him and I question if I can really afford a dog myself, the dog food ended up being very expensive as needed a special diet to stop constant runny poo, dog needed a lot more grooming and associated costs than I though it would, dog ended up with constant dental problems that were expensive and time consuming, becoming dog reactive/anxious is something that can happen to any dog and is not always down to the owner and then it changes how you think ownership will be - you think it be all lovely long countryside walks. What if it’s not? He’s gonna have a kid harassing this dog all day and night and stressed out and who do you think will end up having to help? ME

Well you don't have to help, stay out of it. It sounds like you've been through a lot and need to deal with that at your own pace, not exacerbated by this focus on another family's pet situation. Try to distance yourself rather than getting more drawn in. He's getting a dog, nothing you say is going to change that, and he'll deal with it like grown ups have to. The dog owning experience wasn't what you expected either and you can't put that knowledge into people's heads in advance of them living through it. It's no different to telling someone what it's really like having a kid, they won't know until they've lived through it. There's no way your advice is going to come across as anything other than inflammatory so withdraw and take time with your own grieving process.

I had a lovely breed of dog and DB was extremely close to my dog who was very affectionate and lovely natured. My dog liked children and found them exciting and liked to play. However when one of his children was around the dog, the dog would lick his lips and cower because the DC was so over bearing. I would try to help teach DC about not waking up a sleeping dog or forcing the dog by pulling it around. If the dog didn’t do what the DC wanted he wasn’t able to stop focusing on it and would just try lots of other things to make it do something. All my other nieces and nephews would just play with the dog and stroke him then just let the dog be if he left of his own accord.

It’s not really any of your business though is it?

I mean, I had no idea how to look after a baby properly til I had one and didn’t really show a great deal of interest in other babies before. It doesn’t mean I’ve neglected mine.

I get your concerns OP but I think you level of mental involvement in this (which is huge) is probably down to you grieving for your own dog.

You can only give him advice which he'll ignore, and then it's time for you to move on from it.

Your brother does sound irresponsible and is only getting a dog for entertainment for the children and sadly is likely to choose a dog on its looks rather than the breed requirements.

I think your thoughts and feelings are completely valid but realistically you have to let him get on with it.

I'm sorry for the loss of your lovely dog.

If it does all go to pot, don't prop it up. If he doesn't ask for your advice and isn't interested in your opinion then he can't look to you to dig him out of a mess of his own making.
I'd try to be emotionally distant and calmly give your concerns if relevant/asked... If it's going to go wrong, it will go wrong even if you try to help, so best it goes wrong quickly so they can recognise the reality they're in. If you buffer thim from his own problems it will be a chain round your neck and drag it all out.
It's crap too many people don't know what they're taking on and ruin their dog.

I’m worried I am going to bond with the dog myself tbh. It’s not the first time I’ve had this happen where do you think I got my own dog from (wasn’t him but I knew the person). And he took so much work due to the fact that it takes so much hard work and determination to bring up children and a dog together safely and effectively

Not your problem. Forget about it.

That's a whole load of worrying over something you can't do anything about.

Let it go.

@LabelleLabelle you are a kind and loving lady who understands that a dogs needs come first. Sadly not every dog owner thinks like you do.

We have recently acquired two more dogs, one under similar circumstances to your brother where a dog was bought for its looks and no understanding of the amount of exercise she required and thankfully has now been passed to us to care for and get an abundance of exercise.

I’m worried I am going to bond with the dog myself tbh.

This is the only thing in your posts that you can have some control over so work on managing that and leave the rest to your brother. It sounds like more distance would be the best thing.

I think your experience of rescue and your knowledge of your brothers lack of parenting and possible responsibility over dog ownership is really coming out here. And yes, exacerbated by the loss of your own Ddog.

I expect you are concerned about the pup needing to be rehomed once the kids or DB get bored, or that a pup might snap if manhandled by kids. And perhaps you fear loss if this pup has to be rehomed, or that you'll feel you need to be the rescue for it.

If DB won't listen to you, you could point him to Dogs Trust who have guides incl dogs around children. They even go into schools and help educate children about dog behaviour so as to help kids understand that dogs are not toys. Some dogs will snap at kids to get away if the kids manhandle for cuddles/kisses so Dogs Trust want to reduce this risk through educating people to respect dogs, because they deal with the aftermath of irresponsible ownership.

So I get it OP, but equally your DB is an adult who gets to make his own decisions, even if you disagree. It may be that things will work out ok though, you never know.

You are probably right, but there is nothing you can do about it. Your brother may find that looking after a dog is less straightforward than he had anticipated and at that point he will probably ask for advice-very likely from you, as you seem to be knowledgeable about dogs.

I think it's up to them but what's the issue with saying DDog. Dogs are precious we don't deserve dogs.

Yes I am worried about what happens if a dog snaps at a child who is old enough to be taught, so it would be Db’s responsibility not mine none the less I don’t want to see any DC being hurt or any dog either.

I can see he's not going to listen I’m certain he’s getting a dog for all the wrong reasons and wrong motivations with idealistic expectations but I can’t do anything about it. He’s pretty stubborn he wouldn’t admit he had made a mistake he would just be very stressed out.

There is a distinct pattern in parents getting lots of pets, then finding problems with the pets, getting very stressed and eventually rehoming them then doing it all over again and again. Parents will make everything worse and get over involved. The whole dynamic will change and I am dreading the impact on everyone else tbh

I think you need to chill your beans. They’re getting a puppy that will have been subject to all kinds of rough and tumble from its litter mates - and its mother. Eight week old puppies are tough and know no fear. A small puppy is in no way comparable to your rescue dog. We have a small JRT who has played happily with a three year old. She’s (the dog) now four and has never snapped at anyone in her life.