To wonder what all the fuss is about ULEZ

[Winterday1991]

Hardly anyone is affected, only if you have a very old car. No, you should not be free to pollute the air by driving around in a polluting vehicle and so should have to pay a penalty to do so.

It annoys me as everyone agrees we need to tackle climate change, but no one wants the hit on their life/ change their lifestyles.

Yes your friend's dad has my sympathy.

Several boroughs have taken Khan to court over this

Yet next month there will be rich people coming from the Middle East to escape the heat and will race their super cars around Knightsbridge and Mayfair and park where they like because they can afford to do what they like and pay the fines. They couldn't care less. Neither could TFL because it's good revenue.

@jenbj The Ramadan Rush. It happens once a year for a short period of time. Ramadan, basically. Similarly, your friend's dad's situation will be a for a short period of time also. Actually, no it won't because it didn't happen, did it?

However I live in central London all year round and have done for 31 years. I am not super rich or rich at all and don't drive a £1 million car. Most of us don't, you know, Muslim or not. I don't drive at all. However, rich or poor we all have to breathe. That's why for all its flaws, I like ULEZ a lot.

Polluters have to pay. And yes, I do have other bills, caring responsibilities, pets etc.

Limitedperiodonly I don't understand what you mean. What are you saying didn't happen? Me visiting my friend? Her dad visiting? I'm genuinely confused.

@limitedperiodonly actually, are you accusing me of lying?

If you live in central London you have excellent public transport and driving a car would be more of a hindrance than a help. The reverse is often true at the edge of London. It's pretty bad to try to claim higher moral ground that way.

Of course not. I'm pointing out that your friend's dad was not affected by ULEZ

I didn't say he was. But in a few weeks time he would be. There is a world of difference between villages outside a built up area such as Chelsfield and Pratts Bottom and Downe and central London. And a world of difference between the transport options available.

I don't dispute that I have excellent public transport where I live.

However it was @jenbj who dragged in the super rich from the Middle East driving their supercars round Mayfair and Knightsbridge.

On occasion I have found them annoying but not really. Their cars are noisy but it's far enough away for it not to bother me and they are generally ULEZ-compliant. And they don't stay long.

It's a temporary situation, much like @jenbj's friend's dad and the hospital stay.

But as I pointed out I live here all the time and like ULEZ a lot. The concerns of local residents should be taken into account, shouldn't they? There will be people in @jenbj friend's dad's neighbourhood who are in favour of ULEZ.

What is most annoying is people with polluting cars who insist they need them only to pop to the shops or visit the sick in hospital or take their elderly neighbours to church/mosque/synagogue.

You wouldn't believe the people on my NextDoor site who still argue about that or perhaps you would.

Very true. Why did you bring up the issue of super rich Arabs in Knightsbridge?

Limitedperiodonly I think your argument is valid for Central London. I think the situation is different in some of the outer boroughs. It doesn't affect me personally. I work in central London, transport links to the centre are good and I have a compliant car if I need to drive locally. I never drive into central London. But locally it is an issue for many people. Half of the Borough is suburban, built up and with good transport. Arguably valid for Ulez. The other half really isn't. If Khan wanted to expand it they should have drawn the lines differently.

I brought up the issue of the super rich because the charges mean nothing to them. They can afford to pay for anything they want to do. A pensioner in an outer borough who has an older vehicle because he rarely drives cannot.

@limitedperiodonly You don't have any issue with people driving cars around London no reason other than pure pleasure and to show off their wealth? Really? Why not?

This. It’s the same with Low Traffic Neighbourhoods. They probably look great if you’re not impacted, but what about those who are affected?

We need proportionate, well thought out and balanced schemes to help with emissions. These clumsy, one size fits all approaches are inadequate and create resentment and hostility towards what should be a cause we all unite behind.

I can't understand why people who live in places like Pratt's Bottom don't pressure their local councils to provide better public transport.

I used to live under Epping Forest District Council in Essex which is a London suburb but not a London borough. It has a tube line - the Central that goes out to Epping.

I could never understand why district and parish councillors in places like Epping, Ongar and North Weald didn't lobby for bus services. In Theydon Bois they were proud of not having street lights because it preserved the village feel. Street lights! That's just what normal people want, isn't it?

Theydon Bois is mostly a main road with houses either side. I thought these people were strange then and still do. I think they thought they were posh but were incredibly cheeseparing. Maybe they have succumbed to the street light tendency of the 20th century since then.

Are you sure you'd have to pay? I have a 64 diesel but as the emissions are so low my car is exempt from ULEZ in London. I do however have to pay in Bristol and Birmingham which I find crazy, but if your car is actually low emissions you may be exempt also

Perhaps because it's rural so there's not enough people to justify the same volume of services as in a built up area? There are bus services, but not as many and generally only to Bromley town centre. I live in the northern part of the borough where the population density is greater. I can get regular buses to central London and in many directions. No issue for me to roll out ulez to my area. But not to the whole borough.

Zero emissions and zero road tax are not the same thing.

@limitedperiodonly I live a bit further out than Epping in a rural area. There is a lot of lobbying for better public transport and has been for years but it doesn’t happen. Sometimes as a family we have to travel to the outer area of the expanded ULEZ zone. It would be a five hour round trip on public transport and given that the first bus doesn’t start until 9am, we wouldn’t even be able to get there on time.

You think people are strange because they don’t want to live in central London. Some of us like peace and quiet but we don’t insult others who want to live in busier areas and call them names; “cheeseparing” WTF!!!

And by the way people don’t like street lighting in the hamlet that I live in. That’s because light pollution has a negative impact on the local wildlife.

Street lights! That's just what normal people want, isn't it?
What a blinkered view of the world.
Where I live I neither want nor need street lights. And I like millions of others can get along fine without them.
Normal?

I'm too young to say for sure but did they charge people for driving leaded fuelled cars while they went over to unleaded? Or did they let the cars fade out without making money out of it.

Also have they thought about all the green space they are destroying and all the tall buildings they are constructing. Having lots of high buildings traps the pollution in no? And doesn't air move, did America not take a brunt of the smoke from Canada?

It's all so easy to blame cars and make a bit of money out of it while they can. Something needs to be done but there is more to it then just cars

It disproportionally affects people who can’t afford newer cars for a start.

I understand that your issues are not the same as mine. Good luck with them.

Why did you bring up the issue of Middle Eastern people in Knightsbridge and Mayfair when talking about your friend's dad?

That's irrelevant. It's more relevant to me because though very ordinary I live near there but could only dream of having a spare million to spend on anything let alone a ULEZ compliant car.

But it doesn't bother me, so why does it bother you? I am happy with ULEZ. If you are not you need to fight your own battles on your own doorstep not dragging in someone else's.

Yes

Your council is not much cop. Most councils aren't. In Tory areas they are run by people who can't understand why anyone would want buses and in Labour areas they are run by people who want to tell you what to do.

However, I like Sadiq Khan and will continue to vote for him unless a better alternative comes along.

So you are local then? In that case you will understand that Theydon Bois is not a village, much less a hamlet or at all rural in any sense of the word but a commuter town on the Central Line.

I spent a lot of time there and a really good thing on the way to and from the station in the pretendy village that is Theydon Bois on winter evenings would have been street lights so you could see where you were going so you could avoid stepping in dog shit and being run over on the crappy pavements if they existed which they didn't always.

It's not a rural idyll but the parish councillors persisted in that delusion. Same as the parish councillors from North Weald, Ongar and Epping - more interested in benches than buses.

I knew that then and definitely when I met my husband who used to live in a proper rural idyll in Somerset before he moved. No offence to the people who live in rural idylls but Theydon Bois and most of Essex is not one and you'll never shake me of that.

God, I forgot how much I hated that place.