Page 22 | To wonder what all the fuss is about ULEZ

Winterday1991 · 2023-07-21T08:52:30+00:00

Hardly anyone is affected, only if you have a very old car. No, you should not be free to pollute the air by driving around in a polluting vehicle and so should have to pay a penalty to do so. It annoys me as everyone agrees we need to tackle climate change, but no one wants the hit on their life/ change their lifestyles.

WhoNeedsToSleepAnyway · 23/07/2023 11:51

Croissantsandpistachio · 23/07/2023 07:11

There's so much mis and disinformation about this it's untrue.

@TheHateIsNotGood the Mayor of London's constituency is London. All of it. There's an election every 4 years. Areas of responsibility include transport and the emergency services. There's a useful website. I don't think he's so worried about votes from the very outer boroughs anyway, they often don't vote Labour. And anyway, it's actually a Tory policy, a long time in the planning.

It's not a climate measure. It's a public health measure. Thousands and thousands of Londoners die prematurely every year from breathing particulates. The cost to the NHS is immense. If your child had breathing difficulties you might think differently. What about their freedom to breathe unencumbered?

Did everyone moaning contribute to the very well advertised consultation? I do feel sorry for people who bought diesels assuming they were cleaner but their ire should be directed at the car manufacturers who lied about their diesel emissions, not a health measure.

We live just on the border of the old and new ULEZ and welcome it.

Trades will just build it into their charging, they're not going to lose business (as if £12 a day makes much of a difference at current day rates!)- and when they change their van they can get a cleaner one. I think the ones we've been using lately all have cleaner vans anyway.

I do think city hall needs to beef up comms considerably. But I'm old enough to remember when the C charge came in and everyone complained then, now it's just normal. People will find the shift painful but in 5 years it will seem normal again.

Yes, greater London had a consultation. However those on the borders of Greater London, but not within it, have zero input into this and no vote and no consultation but are just as affected but no access to any scrappage scheme. Those who live in areas well served tend to be unaware how dire public transport is in outer greater London.

woodhill · 23/07/2023 12:01

ManAboutTown · 23/07/2023 10:41

Khan does consultations to go through the motions not listen to the responses

He is an execrable little weasel

Isn't he just

I did get asked to fill out responses and said it was a bad idea as I expect most people would

He has mismanaged funds so he needs revenue

woodhill · 23/07/2023 12:04

No mention of airports causing air pollution in the outer boroughs

Grapefruitsquash · 23/07/2023 12:10

Peony654 · 21/07/2023 10:46

I agree. I happily live in London car free. Public transport is great. We have to be willing to make lifestyle sacrifices so the planet doesn't burn.

Good for you. I Iive in London and my late shift finishes at 00.30. I can drive for 40 minutes to get home or take 3 night buses taking up to 3 hours. Ever taken a night bus through Central London at 3am on a midweek night?

That's too much of a lifestyle change.

woodhill · 23/07/2023 12:12

Plus the outer boroughs are different to central London in terms of transport and are suburbs.

They are no different to the Home Counties

Beebopwasthebest · 23/07/2023 12:13

Winterday1991 · 21/07/2023 10:19

Think these tradesmen all earn enough money to pay the daily fee.

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I would think (and expect) tradespeople would pass the charge to the customer?

Grapefruitsquash · 23/07/2023 12:18

MrsKnows · 23/07/2023 03:02

Would it affect your vote, though? Would you avoid voting for the party who introduced it? (Conservatives 2016) Or would you avoid voting for the party who implemented it (Labour 2023) OR Would you vote for whoever made it more affordable? (Eg different rates for tradespeople or regular travellers and a scrap page scheme etc)

Or do you feel it’s not that big a deal to affect your voting?

I was rather surprised about how large an area it covers but truly shocked when I found out how much it costs per day! It would definitely convince me to take the train into London travelling in from the South Coast!…. But it seems extortionate! £12.50?! A DAY?!! Air quality matters immensely but it feels like highway robbery!

I feel it only needs to be about £10 a week - it would have the desired effect; use public transport, unless it’s essential or cheaper to drive! 🤔

And if I'm on a late shift that finishes after midnight I have to pay twice as it's per calendar date not 24 hours.

Tumbleweed101 · 23/07/2023 12:37

My family live on the border just inside the new London zone and nearly all of them have had to replace vehicles they rely on. None of them are massively well off but they can't afford £12 or so a day to get to work. Or pop in to visit vulnerable family.

Anyone going to Heathrow Airport will also have to pay the charge if their car isn't compliant.

WhoNeedsToSleepAnyway · 23/07/2023 12:41

woodhill · 23/07/2023 12:12

Plus the outer boroughs are different to central London in terms of transport and are suburbs.

They are no different to the Home Counties

Yes, this

Fizbosshoes · 23/07/2023 13:07

I used to live in zone 5. The transport options were great for me as a single person, no kids working in Central London, 9-5.30. I had about 5 tube stations, 2 of which had mainline trains, and a bus station, all within a 20 min walk. Other areas of the Borough (and indeed other boroughs) have nowhere near the same provision. A relative lives in zone 3, not far from London at all....but their transport options are fairy poor in comparison. Of course compared to a rural village or even commuter town they are possibly better but I'd imagine most journeys are easier by car.
Lifestyle changes often cost time and money, that not everyone has.

nalabae · 23/07/2023 13:18

Girl if you don't get outta here with this nonsense thread you know exactly what the issues are

Comedycook · 23/07/2023 13:20

I'm zone 3/4 in SE London so no tube. Buses are ok but aren't quicker than driving. Nearest train station is a fifteen minute walk. I often check whether public transport would be quicker for my journeys and it never is, unless I was going into central London. As an example, my Ds plays football on a weeknight. The drive to the training ground takes 8 minutes. There is no direct bus so you need two buses to get there. Adding in the walk at the beginning and end and waiting for the bus, it's a 45 minute journey.

X2trouble · 23/07/2023 13:33

Croissantsandpistachio · 23/07/2023 10:31

There's a really good House of Commons briefing paper here on the consultations and subsequent amendments to the scheme: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2022-0240/

Commons library briefings have to be entirely factual and non political.

Everyone does know that disabled drivers have an exemption to the scheme? Until 2027? That was in response to the consultation, as was the scrappage scheme. Londoners then voted 51% in favour in polling. Particulate matter doesn't know borough boundaries- there are very high levels of drift.

@Sluj if I went to Bristol by car for the weekend to see the museums I would pay the charge. It's the same thing. If you want to travel into greater London you have choices: public transport, a lower emissions car, walk or cycle or- use facilities somewhere else. Hospital appointments are indeed a bummer - if you need to see a particular consultant, but we asked for ours to be moved to a hospital easier by public transport.

London can't make transport policy for people who don't live in London and who would experience a very particular set of inconveniences (wanting to go to a specfic cinema or supermarket) in favour of policy that will benefit millions who actually live in the city. It does strike me that the scrappage scheme looks a but low in value but there are likely to be very specific tax reasons why that's at the level it is.

I am so fu*king glad I don't live in London anymore . Rip off city

WhoNeedsToSleepAnyway · 23/07/2023 13:42

Sluj · 23/07/2023 10:45

You don't get it. Lots of amenities and facilities are over the M25 in Enfield and alternatives are not plentiful for those outside it. I'm not talking about having a day out in London, I'm talking about living in a place like Waltham Cross and having your dentist, friends, family and nearest leisure facilities a mile away in Enfield. Do you really think its reasonable to expect such a person to travel to Harlow in the next county if they want to go to the cinema when there is one just down the A10 in Enfield?
I get there is pollution in London but there is also bad pollution in Hertfordshire, especially when the M25 is jammed and all those Londoners hop on the A414 to avoid it. Its just not feasible to expect every different county to introduce their own congestion charge.
I know there is pollution but making the capital city a no go zone for so many people on the edge of it is problematic for them too - with no consultation or compensation on offer.

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This is it exactly..it's not about people coming for a day out. It's for people who effectively live and work in London but could live half a mile away (or less) and get none of the scrappage scheme allowances for example. It for people who live in Great London, in the outer boroughs who don't have the same public transport options.. this policy takes literally no account of those people.

JenniferBooth · 23/07/2023 13:47

@MadeleineMummy i live directly opposite a school and there are parents here who drive their kids in when they live up the road causing gridlock Its a PITA and they park in our car parks

Coco1379 · 23/07/2023 14:00

MalcolmBoura · 23/07/2023 08:29

What is more the manufacturing and disposal emissions are not at street level in an urban area.

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Yay! Nuclear! Clean and green !
Except that the waste remains radioactive for thousands of years. It wouldn’t take long for whole countries to become radioactive dump sites - and we know which countries those would be, don’t we?

SparkyBrad78 · 23/07/2023 14:16

Up to 16 plate vans which do not have AdBlue don’t comply either. It is a con and anyone who believes it is a sheep. One day the gov/councils will come up with a scheme that truly works. But i am just hoping. Bristol allows drivers from the north to get all the way into town but South are restricted massively. Funny how NCP carparks are still accessible too! Either do it properly or not at all.

Sluggy1967 · 23/07/2023 15:10

Where my brother lives low paid workers who are less likely to have a vehicle which meets the requirements (for example teaching assistants or Carers) have to pay the charge if their job takes them into the zone, yet you cannot sit in his back garden and have a conversation for all the noise of so much aircraft flying overhead, and you can literally taste the aircraft fuel in the air. 🤷‍♀️

woodhill · 23/07/2023 15:11

Sluggy1967 · 23/07/2023 15:10

Where my brother lives low paid workers who are less likely to have a vehicle which meets the requirements (for example teaching assistants or Carers) have to pay the charge if their job takes them into the zone, yet you cannot sit in his back garden and have a conversation for all the noise of so much aircraft flying overhead, and you can literally taste the aircraft fuel in the air. 🤷‍♀️

Yes I understand that

Also the roads are not in good repair

MalcolmBoura · 23/07/2023 15:38

Nuclear is less problematic than many would have you believe. However by far the cheapest way to generate electricity is land based wind and that complements electric vehicles well. Unfortunately we have a government that has effectively banned it and increased our bills in consequence.

ILoveEYFS · 23/07/2023 15:43

Winterday1991 · 21/07/2023 10:59

Tradesmen make enough money. Old and disabled have free bus passes.

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Obviously @Winterday1991 is not disabled. Have you tried to use public transport in a wheelchair? It is ridiculous

Emma2023 · 23/07/2023 15:54

UndercoverCop · 21/07/2023 10:04

Tell that to all the tradesman on the outskirts of London

This!

Emma2023 · 23/07/2023 16:03

Really??🤦🏼‍♀️

Clavinova · 23/07/2023 16:30

Reugny
Khan is just using the same criteria of the original ULEZ and expanding it under the directions of the Secretary of State for Transport.

Your link (2020) proposes extending charges to the North and South Circular roads.
ULEZ was extended to the North and South Circular roads in October 2021 - it is not the same expansion as the one being introduced in 2023. Map of the 2021 expansion in green - 2023 expansion in blue:

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/ulez-checker-zone-map-charge-2021-b1944620.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64651136
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_Low_Emission_Zone

ULEZ: Boundary map, start date and everything you need to know

Ultra-Low Emission Zone expanding beyond central London to reach the North and South Circular and discourage polluting vehicles from entering capital

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/ulez-checker-zone-map-charge-2021-b1944620.html

newfriend05 · 23/07/2023 17:15

OP your obviously one of the privileged to have come out with a statement like that !, so out of touch with how most people are coping at the moment...