To wonder what all the fuss is about ULEZ

[Winterday1991]

Hardly anyone is affected, only if you have a very old car. No, you should not be free to pollute the air by driving around in a polluting vehicle and so should have to pay a penalty to do so.

It annoys me as everyone agrees we need to tackle climate change, but no one wants the hit on their life/ change their lifestyles.

you made a lucky choice. When your car was made the government was actively pushing diesels as the answer to air pollution with tax incentives like £20/£30 a year tax.

Watersprites, maybe they mean the air quality is still terrible despite the ulez. Given that so many seem reluctant to give up their cars, it doesn't surprise me

After the last expansion of ULEZ, levels of harmful air pollution had fallen by 20 per cent in inner London and over 40 per cent in central London.

If you were a person living within this area suffering from asthma, you would very likely think this is an extremely worthwhile reduction. My DH with severe asthma certainly thinks it is. Levels of air pollution on our street were in the 97th centile for the country before the ULEZ covered it, and I can assure you it is pretty awful to struggle to breathe and know pollution is endangering your life.

Has pollution gone down to safe, legal levels because of ULEZ? No. It hasn’t. Which is why more needs to be done. A ban on diesel entirely should be next. But expending the ULEZ is a step in the right direction.

ULEZ expansion is backed by academics such as Professor Frank Kelly, who are worried by the persistent attempts to sow doubt about the very clear science, most of which appear to be coming from the political right.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/06/rishi-sunak-tories-air-pollution-ulez-expansion-scientists-letter

TBH I don’t really understand why the right seem to think it’s ok to carry on polluting as we have been doing. Why is it ok for children like Ella Kissi-Debrah to die because of avoidable air pollution? Why is ok for children to grow up with lower lung capacity than they should have? Why is it ok for people to get dementia, cancer or heart disease who wouldn’t otherwise have done so? Why is it ok for people to die prematurely and lose years of their life? Why is it ok for black people to beat the brunt of this?

This is our problem. We need a vehicle we can tow with.

It’s not the expansion that’s the issue. It’s the implementation that’s the issue.

Whst should the implementation be then?

Better funded public transport so people actually have a choice. Better cycle lanes so people have a choice.
more support for those in the area who need to change, better support for those bordering the zone.

Postcodes are nothing to do with local government, they can cover several councils. The TN postcode area stretches from the Kent/Sussex coast all the way to the M25, and a long way east and west. It includes 4 council areas in East Sussex alone and most of TN is in Kent. Places in the northern part of Tandridge District Council (Surrey) have CR, ie Croydon, postcodes, but the vast majority of the CR area is in Greater London.

@Sigmama I'm sure air quality is still bad but isn't that what ULEZ is meant to be fixing

Nobody in the outer London area cared when it affected those of us in the original zone - it wasn’t just ‘central London’ but boroughs including Hackney and Tower Hamlets that have some of the highest levels of poverty and deprivation in the country. But now people that aren’t in actual ‘London’ but the suburbs are affected they want to complain

Let's hope your good at your own plumbing, electric, gas, decorating, brick laying, gate installations, mobile mechanics etc because many are unable to spend £24k on a van so are deciding to only take jobs out of London.

Nobody in the outer London area cared when it affected those of us in the original zone - it wasn’t just ‘central London’ but boroughs including Hackney and Tower Hamlets that have some of the highest levels of poverty and deprivation in the country. But now people that aren’t in actual ‘London’ but the suburbs are affected they want to complain

Surely that's not a surprise, the majority of people don't care about something until directly affected.

It’s had a beneficial effect, but we still have problems. To reduce properly we need far fewer vehicles on the road full stop, including electric ones. Definitely a complete diesel ban too. But imagine how that would go down if there’s this much of a song and dance about ULEZ?!

ULEZ is about the art of the possible, rather than being a perfect solution. Yet even this modest aim is talked about as if it’s asking for the moon on a stick. People are lazy and self-centred by instinct and few are prepared to take the hit to their lifestyle to achieve real change.

This

They did, it affected many who travelled in.
And many changed their cars to ensure they were compliant when they needed replacing, so it was naturally happening.

How can you ban diesel when it’s all lorries, vehicles that tow, vans (electric ones are really struggling to be useful), delivery vehicles, plant vehicles.

im not disagreeing by the way, it’s just not as simple as banning it. We need hydrogen and we needed it 10 years ago.

Oh do grow up.

I agree. The trouble is the government has provided absolutely no money to the scheme, so it’s all had to be funded by the Mayor. It’s all part of a silly, juvenile game because he’s Labour. Why isn’t the government interested in the health of Londoners?

My understanding is that the Ulez has resulted in an improvement in the air quality in central London but it is still really bad.

I think some people do whatever they can to avoid paying it. This year, for example, I have had six different trades people out who have all passed the charge onto me/the customer. I think this should be clamped down upon as it won’t have the desired impact of changing behaviour it just becomes a tax. Quite a few of these people were sub contractors (eg to John Lewis) and were still allowed to charge for the Ulez which I don’t think is right. They were all extremely well paid (received thousands). They were choosing to keep their costs low by not replacing their vans and passing the costs onto the customer.

I understand some people may not be able to afford to make the change but there are many coming into London who are choosing to maximise their profits (keep their costs low) at the expense of the health of others and I think it’s right that they are challenged on this. It is selfish.

A lot of the criticism is unfounded. To focus on facts: Extract from a GLA Press Release back in 2015:

The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, said: “The world’s first Ultra Low Emission Zone is an essential measure to help improve air quality in our city, protect the health of Londoners, and lengthen our lead as the greatest city on earth. With additional funds announced today, more help is on the way for taxi drivers to support their transition to the latest technology in greener cabs. Together we can ensure everyone who lives, works in, or visits our city has the cleanest possible air to breathe.”

Prime Minister David Cameron said: “I welcome this announcement which is a world first and great news for London, helping to enhance the quality of life and creating opportunities for companies who develop and manufacture this kind of technology. This will build on the UK’s strengths in low emission technology and the Government is backing this initiative with £25 million of support.”

According to the RAC, TfL's own data suggests that the ULEZ doesn't actually improve air quality:-
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/air-quality/has-the-ulez-been-unfair-to-drivers-new-tfl-report-reveals-disappointing-ea/

So that's the air quality argument out the window. That makes it a money making scheme. I am like others here. I have a vehicle that I saved hard for which is (or was) worth about £13k. Scrappage would give me £2000 so that doesn't work. It has only done 80k miles so has a good 200k miles left, but I'm supposed to bin it and buy a new one that I can't afford. I don't believe that is good for the overall environment either.

As for tradesmen, they will only pass on costs to the consumers (whether you agree or not, or think they can swallow the cost and lower their profitability). Personally, I don't believe all these trades people are as rolling in it as the OP seems to think. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

No upside at all really.

Because it isn't true.

Nobody is dying from "dirty" air, its just a sales tactic. Cars have never been cleaner, were people dropping dead on street corners in the 80s? No.

The whole "because of the environment" bullshit is wearing a bit thin now.

ITS ABOUT MONEY!

It’s the one thing Tory’s can hang Labour on isn’t it.
it’s the problem with short term 4 year voting isn’t it. It’s a Tory idea but labour are the ones implementing it. So Labour look the bad guys.
as you say, they don’t want it to work so they look heroic. When there is no winner in this situation really.

again I don’t know where the Lib Dem’s are. It seems clear cut to me:
conservatives thought it
labour implemented it

Lib Dem’s. Here’s our plan to make it work.

It’ll be things like last mile deliveries, cargo bikes, electric vehicles etc. It will take a lot of vision and will. But we’ve seen the way the right wing media have whipped up opposition even to ULEZ and how effective that’s been. So a full diesel ban is at least a long way off and maybe not possible at all, sadly.

Yes.

It seems an odd thing to me, for the Tories to position themselves as the party saying ‘Fuck you and your health, Londoners, we don’t give a stuff about you, we’d rather get one over on Labour, that’s all we care about’. Yet here we are 🤷‍♀️