To think that employers will have to pay more for working in the office roles?

[MrsMarieMopps]

Following on from the poster who is annoyed she will have to come back into the office two days a week, I honestly think this argument will come up again and again.
I have never been able to work from home, apart from the odd day when I had COVID. Worked through the pandemic in an office. I am an NHS employee and need to be in the hospital even if not necessarily clinical.
My trust is now fully back to pre covid 'everyone must come in every day'. I don't disagree with this. We should be in supporting the clinical staff and patients!
This means spending on

• transport (£12 a day for me)
• parking
• childcare including wraparound and school holidays
• food which can be transported. Milk for work, butter for work etc. I was home I could just make something out of what I had at the back of the cupboards
• some have cleaners as they are out the house more.
• some gym memberships are cheaper if you can go off peak. Which I can't.
• contributions to leaving presents, maternity leave, big birthdays. These contributions are presumably are less pressured if not in person.
• sickness. There's many days when you can't pull yourself in to the office, or when you're contagious, but you probably could log in from home. I have defo noticed my friends are rarely 'calling in sick' anymore for their children or themselves but WFH instead.

So whilst I appreciate that not all jobs require an office presence, if I was a job seeker why would I choose one that's not hybrid or working from home, especially nowadays. I feel there is going to have to be some sort of reimbursement for taking on a job which requires you to make all the sacrifices in order to do it. Also can't help noticing that it is generally the lower paid who are having to keep paying all these necessary costs. We don't have people falling over themselves to do jobs in care, retail, hospitality as it is and I think this would really help with adding an incentive. Otherwise why would anyone become an NHS band 2 admin or a cook in a nursing home? Also I'm aware heating costs may be more but that's just one thing and most just put another jumper, my workplace is freezing anyway!

I am a single parent and WFH f/t. I pay more in electricity and heating to do so, work from my dining room as have no spare room and can't afford a gym membership -off peak or not. I also do all the cleaning and everything else that goes with it. I get what you're trying to say but a lot of what you have said is a generalisation and just not true for many.

Agree that transport, parking and childcare will affect many (not all, though - e.g. if you can walk or cycle to work and don't have children of childcare age).

Agree strongly with the point you make about sickness:

• Food which can be transported. Milk for work, butter for work etc. I was home I could just make something out of what I had at the back of the cupboards

Offices can install a fridge/kitchenette

• some have cleaners as they are out the house more.

In my dreams 😄

• some gym memberships are cheaper if you can go off peak. Which I can't.

No interest in joining a gym

• contributions to leaving presents, maternity leave, big birthdays. These contributions are presumably are less pressured if not in person.

Appreciate their can be peer pressure but ultimately these are optional (and still happen remotely).

Everyone is different - when i WFH a lot of what you said doesnt apply:

transport (£12 a day for me) - work is 5 minute walk so no saving for me
parking - parking is free at my office so when i need the car eg if going onto a client meeting etc there is no cost
childcare including wraparound and school holidays - mine are all secondary age so no child care needed
food which can be transported. Milk for work, butter for work etc. I was home I could just make something out of what I had at the back of the cupboards Work provides tea/coffee/milk and snacks and often lunch eg fridays they get us subway ordered.
some have cleaners as they are out the house more. no I clean my house on a weekend/during the week as I go
some gym memberships are cheaper if you can go off peak. Which I can't. I dont go to the Gym - partyl cost and partly laziness and mostly lack of time
contributions to leaving presents, maternity leave, big birthdays. These contributions are presumably are less pressured if not in person. probably agree with you here but we are a close team so would still contribute
sickness. There's many days when you can't pull yourself in to the office, or when you're contagious, but you probably could log in from home. I have defo noticed my friends are rarely 'calling in sick' anymore for their children or themselves but WFH instead. I normally work in the office but if sick have the option of working from home

So really nothing changes for me if I were to WFH all the time but I actually prefer being in the office - you abosrb more info and details that you just cant from sparodic emails/teams calls.

I do think there will be a return to the office among the younger generation - it is fine for us oldies with experience to crack on with our jobs in isolation but new graduates who need to learn from others and probably have moved city will want the office for learning and networking and socialising!

Gosh, that would be a disciplinary issue where I work.

We're hybrid and there is a very strong focus on being present and working when you're wfh, with targets, collaboration and productivity a real priority.

I think the only cases where things are marginal is early secondary when you might not have been comfortable with them staying home alone all day, but they are fine with zero parental input as long as an adult is there for true emergencies.

Otherwise - if you wouldn't leave them by themselves, then you aren't allowed to work with them there. My eldest is starting secondary and we'll still be doing camps etc when we can't find other arrangements; he's one of those on the cusp of being ok alone but he can't really do a full day alone yet.

Anyone working from home is surely aware that their role can be done from anywhere in the world theoretically? They will be the first to be replaced. Plenty of people wfh are quite obviously multitasking and not concentrating on the job they are being paid for. Especially ime local government officers, as quite often when you have to call them there is substantial background interference.
If you have children of an age to need childcare, then your employer should ask to see evidence of such. So in answer to the OP, people on site shouldn't receive any recompense and many wfh should be recalled to their place of work for various reasons. Nationally productivity is suffering and as a PP said, this is all becoming very divisive

I half agree with you. I've always disliked the idea of spending your salary to get to your job. I understand there isn't a logical, fair solution to that as someone should be paid less because they live closer to their workplace or whatever.

I can understand there being a 'commuters bonus' of sorts where your company pay X% of your travel costs.

Your other examples are silly. Cleaners, gym memberships, childcare etc are not valid reasons for you to have a payrise.

So the majority of those WFH are actually financially worse off and don't like it? What's stopping you applying from a role outside of the home?

Why should a company have to pay more for your lifestyle choices? You chose where you live, you chose if you have children

If you go down that route, it will make parents even less attractive to employers

My concerns would be; if you argue that you can do your job from anywhere then companies may well find people in other countries who expect much less pay and are probably just as well educated to do those jobs. Also, younger people starting off in the workforce may well want the social aspect of being in an office and may not have the space to work from home so will cheerfully take those jobs that people who want to stay home for childcare reasons are arguing have to be wfh. It will be interesting to see how this pans out over the next few years.

This ^^^ a THOUSAND times this.

You take a job based on several things but money is (probably) the most important aspect. It’s then up to you to work out your own budgets. Stop moaning and whinging and expecting to be given more. If you want more bloody well earn it.

STOP expecting everyone else to pick up your expenses. Childcare is already subsidised by the government.

I’m sick and tired of this me, me, me culture with people wanting more and more and more. Then you cry when prices of go up, which it has to to cover the extra expenses of paying employees who want more.

Supply and demand.

Employers will pay the going rate (including terms and conditions) to recruit and retain the employees they want and need.

They need to factor in that choice of wfh, hybrid and full time in person are things that employees include in their choice of where to work.

It’s over 3 years since the first lockdown and many places are struggling to recruit - if mass outsourcing of jobs to workers abroad was the solution, they would have done it already.

I think most employers would make the following points in relation to your post, which seems to equate working form home as being the same as putting in hours when it suits you, which is not teh case most people working from home have to work within defined time bands.

Transport and parking can be an issue- but there are in various tax schemes available to lessen the load for staff- should they refuse jobs to anyone who moved further away, or didn't chose to live close to work? or chose not to cycle? obviously not, that is the employees choice, so why should they pay staff more based on staffs choice where to live?

Childcare including wraparound and school holidays Must be provided during working hours when you are working from home and have contracted hours -you need child care during those times, yes there can be a little flexibility eg use lunch hours to do school runs , finish early etc. but many "in office" workplaces also have flexi hours to facilitate this. I'm sorry if you are working form home then childcare should be provided by someone else.

Food which can be transported. Milk for work, butter for work etc. I was home I could just make something out of what I had at the back of the cupboards- milk and butter are just the same, sandwiches from home are just the same, the same shopping pays for those cupboard items, unless you expect the employer to pay you in their time to prep your food. (but that aside I've never worked anywhere that didnt provide milk tea coffee sugar etc for free. )

Some have cleaners as they are out the house more. if you are out of the house more then house doesn't get messy by you, employers often pay cleaners too -to clean those office spaces you use. Again are you talking of proper dedicated cleaning when on the employers time? If so then you are being dishonest.

some gym memberships are cheaper if you can go off peak. Which I can't. Nor can most workers working from home's they are working the same hours you are. There is as likely a gym near teh workplace as near the home.

Contributions to leaving presents, maternity leave, big birthdays. These contributions are presumably are less pressured if not in person. If you are being pressurized please report this to someone senior - employer can just ban it if the staff want

sickness. There's many days when you can't pull yourself in to the office, or when you're contagious, but you probably could log in from home. I have defo noticed my friends are rarely 'calling in sick' anymore for their children or themselves but WFH instead. If you are unwell and cant make it in we would rather that you don't give a half hearted performance at home,

I don't know if it's general, but, in London, a while ago, some firms were looking at taking away the London Weighting, if people weren't working in the office.

Personally I'm financially far, far, far better off and happier wfh.

I will never do 9-5 M-F again.

Surely you should be paying for childcare wherever you are working, not looking after your child?

When I was first brought back in after lockdown, I felt like I had been released from solitary confinement - the benefits of a regular routine that involved getting dressed in work clothes, physical movement, daylight and meaningful contact with somebody other than DP, the cats and the Ocado/Amazon driver far outweighed the convenience of rolling down the stairs to switch on my crappy laptop 3 minutes before my start time.

I have had occasional days WFH because conversely, constant interruptions can get too much after a while, but on the whole, actually going to a workplace and being around people is far, far, better for me physically and psychologically.

There seems to be a trend where people don't want to take responsibility for anything. Your employer pays you to do the work associated with your job. It's up to you to manage any costs associated with getting there.

How would you feel if your cleaner decided to demand extra because there's a cost associated with them getting to your house? You'd not be too chuffed I imagine. Or if your solicitor decided to bill you a bit more because they live quite far away?
During covid you were saving money, so it's not actually costing you any more now, you're just saving less.

In the part of the NHS I work in, in order to receive London weighting you have to be in the office 2 days a week. Which is very reasonable.

I wouldn't go to an office for any sum of money. My job pays everyone extra for WFH costs.

But for those who talk about personal responsibility, who are going to do these jobs?
When I left my last role we had one applicant for an NHS admin. Were they the best person for the job? Who knows?
All of you will need to see a nurse at one point.
Some of you will have children in school.
Some of you have children with special needs who require multiple professionals and input from secondary care and the charity sector. These people will, on the whole, have to leave their homes to see and help your child.
People in supermarkets, shops, cafes, bars, people who pack your Amazon orders.
The last three people who left the NHS who I know, left to do WFH roles. Who will replace them, and would they be the best candidate or is the best candidate out there looking at WFH roles?

Well they are either neglectful parents or they are not concentrating properly on their work. My son is in Year 1, I work 4 days hybrid (2 days at home 2 days in office) DH WFH on my office days. So there is an adult at home every weekday. Son is in holiday club unless we take annual leave because there is no way we could just leave him on an iPad all the time we are working and we can’t keep dipping in and out of work to interact with him on and off all day. I manage other people and we do not allow this.

I wfh 3 days a week and my childcare bill for summer holiday club is nearly £600. My employer is quite clear that wfh isn't a substitute for childcare and employees are still expected to make necessary arrangements. During term time they go to ASC twice a week too. I was able to work with my 8yo around for a strike day a few weeks ago but that was the exception rather than the rule. And if my 5yo was around too that would make it more difficult

I reckon WFH with dependent kids is only realistic after they are about 13.

I reckon WFH with dependent kids is only realistic after they are about 13

It's been fine for us since about age 8/9.