Do We Have Any Recourse?

[DontWantToBeHomeless]

Long story short(ish):

Landlord is being forced to sell the house we've rented for 9 years, wants us to buy it, DH and I have been approved for a 100% mortgage - all good so far...

Valuers turn up to inspect the house, discover the loft conversion isn't up to regs and can't be classed as a 3rd bedroom - we can sign something to say we "won't use it as a bedroom" to allow the mortgage to go ahead, even though we have been using it as a bedroom for the past 9 years, that was the whole fecking point in moving to a 3 bed house! FFS

Things are progressing, solicitor has sent contracts for us to sign etc.

But here's my query - shouldn't the value of the house now reflect that it is NOT a 3 bed and is actually a 2 bed with "loft storage"? Surely we can't be expected to pay 3 bed price for a house that isn't.....????

No idea as yet what it will take to make the loft "liveable" but I don't see why we should have to pay for a 3 bed house AND pay to make the loft meet regs! If that's even something we would have to do, but if we didn't wouldn't that make any buildings insurance invalid if the worst was to happen?

DH is happy to proceed, doesn't see an issue, can't see why I'm making a fuss - I guess he's just relieved we a) meet the criteria for the mortgage on this house (specific circumstances) b) don't have to move 9 years worth of stuff and c) won't end up homeless as there is nothing else to rent in our area and no guarantee we'd get a mortgage on another house.

I'm just so confused by the whole sodding thing, and angry that the landlord misrepresented the house in the first place by advertising it as a 3 bed when he knew the loft conversion was dodgy!

Any insight/advise welcome

Apologies if I've missed some in between detail but you say the valuation says the loft isn't up to regs and can't be used as a bedroom but have you checked with the council to see if there was building control sign off at the time? If there was my understanding (I hope so as we have one) is that it's still fine. If there was no sign off at the time that's an issue. Do you know how long ago it was done? How long has the LL owned the property and does he have anything re building control sign off or indemnity policy from when he bought it?

Re the insurance; you need to be absolutely upfront with any insurance company, which is why you need a proper report on the issues. If you have a report then you can say that there is a loft conversion which needs x,y, z to bring it up to regs. Don't say it's a 3 bed until the work is signed off, as you might make the insurance void and couldn't claim in the event of damage etc.

I’d start by having a chat to a couple of local estate agents to get a rough idea of the going rate for the house. Legally it can only be marketed as a two bed so this is your leverage for a price reduction, as if it goes to the open market there will be the same issue. Re the cost of converting to a loft room it’s very likely to be the full cost of a conversion. There are really strict building regulations, again a chat with a builder will give you some idea. Does the loft room currently have its own enclosed staircase? There are lots of fire regulations etc and minimum head height at the top of the stairs that must be followed to make it a habitable and safe third bedroom. Likewise the floor joists etc will need to be changed to one’s suitable for a habitable room so it’s not a small job. Not all lofts are suitable for conversion and it’s important to understand that many of the regulations that are in place are to ensure that the occupants of the bedroom are safe if there is a fire in the house. I’d pause, gather together the information you need and then have an amicable conversation with your landlord, as no estate agent can legally market it as a three bed house and it’s important that if you purchase it, that it’s for the right price while understanding the implications of the third bedroom not meeting current safety requirements plus having an idea of the cost of a loft conversion. We converted ours ten years ago and it cost over 30k.

Yes. I would get a new valuation. On the 2 bedroom property

Sorry I’d missed a couple of your most recent replies but the above still stands and the key thing is getting to the bottom of the issues with the loft conversation and what needs putting right. You need to speak to the surveyor for more details and follow up with your landlord to find out why it doesn’t have building control sign off and what has and hasn’t been done. Good luck with it all.

Get 3 more estate agents round to do valuation

Pay for your own buildings survey

Before agreeing the sale

See if you can get an independent building survey including a valuation and ask fimor it to include an estimate of what it will cost to get the loft regs compliant. It's helpful that the info you already have is that it's the fire safety regs that haven't been met. I had a quick look and it sounds like the requirements are (1) a mains fire alarm/detector (2) fire door to the room and (3) fire resistant escape route from loft room down to ground floor exit. Alarm and door would be easy to sort. Escape route will be OK if all surrounding corridor walls you would pass through are 30m fire rated. If the route is the main structure of the house then likely to be fine. But if there is a flimsy partition wall that might need to be replaced or have a layer added. But should not be too bad. Also if the room is used as a bedroom it must have a window which I assume it does. You're already getting a 10% discount which should more than cover the work and seems like a bargain as you want the house anyway, but get a report for reassurance. https://loftreport.co.uk/what-are-the-loft-conversion-fire-regulations/?expand_article=1

I meant to say if it's "only" fire regs then that sounds more promising than general building regs which could mean supporting joists have been sawn through!!! Saw a property programme where a seller had actually done that!

I would buy it as it's a good price for a 2 bed with loft potential. There are plenty of people sleeping in rooms that can't be classified as bedrooms because the ceiling height/window size doesn't meet those specified. You may be able to fix it and sell it later as a 3 bed, or it might be something that can't be changed.

Either way, location and the house itself seem to make it worthwhile. You could try for a discount of £5k or so by saying you were led to believe it was an approved 3 bed, not 2 bed, and see what happens.

I bought a property advertised as a 3-bed with a loft conversion, but the loft couldn't be counted as a proper bedroom as it didn't mean building regs for a bedroom. It didn't have a door for a start. Anyway, we paid the price and later redid the loft conversion as it was badly done {and dangerous as it turned out) - we had to get the ceilings lowered, put in fire doors throughout the house and add fire alarms to all floors for a start.

It wasn't a cheap exercise but we lived in the property for 10 years before redoing the loft and used the room during that period. And we now have a fabulous loft which helped us sell the house recently, and the amount it cost (£60k back in 2016 I think) has been recouped on the sale.

I don't see why you can't use the room as a bedroom, and our mortgage company never raised an issue with it so I don't see why there is a problem. It's not like they're going to send someone around to check on you so I wouldn't worry (though I would check your house insurance)

My house and a lot of others round here have an attic room which has stairs up but doesn't meet current building regs. Agents tend to market them as x bedrooms plus attic studio room, then mention in the blurb that the room either has been or is currently used as a bedroom, but may not meet current regs.

There's nothing to stop you using the room as a bedroom in its current state if you want to - no one's going to come round and check. When you come to sell buyers will be able to see that the room could be a bedroom and decide for themselves how they want to use it. It just can't be marketed as a three bed.

I was going to ask this very question.

It's always been my understanding that building regs aren't retrospective. If they were, there'd be no end of older properties all over the country that don't meet the regs, but still get sold to buyers with mortgages without any problem.

Hmmm given your update j think you'd be a bit mad to renegotiate!! There is value in the fact that you don't have to move and you don't have to do the work straight away do you!

In the first post, you said "Valuers turn up to inspect the house, discover the loft conversion isn't up to regs and can't be classed as a 3rd bedroom" - so the person who highlighted the issue with the 3rd bedroom was someone doing a valuation on the property... so:

1. Who was that valuer working for? You? Your mortgage company? The seller (or their agent)?
2. what valuation did that person give for the property?

If the answer to Q1 is the seller (or their agent) you should get an independent valuation. Otherwise the answer to Q2 will tell you if what you've agreed to pay is worth it or not.

Then how the heck do the valuers know it isn't up to regulation?

Get an agent in to value it as a 2 bed and a quote for what it would take to get the loft up to spec and see how you feel then imo.

Just get building regs round to tell you? Easier/cheaper than a valuation/survey and he will tell you exact details.