And seasoned people managers or HR here? I need your help

[Bananananaaaaas]

Is performance improvement plan always really a step to start managing someone out?

this is my perception, that if you get put on one, you’re as good as out. Is this actually the case or is it just me being an awful cynic?

my old work friend has been put one and truthfully it feels like bullying. Feedback until this point has been hidden or obscured or presented in a very roundabout way that they didn’t know they were under performing. They met targets needed help on a complex project and that’s been used against them. There are other things such as confidence but to me that’s not PIP material.

but to the first question, does she have a chance to really show what she’s made of or is she fighting a losing battle?

I work for a TU and I am always suspicious of PIP's. A lot of scope for the employer to push people out. Having said that, I have accompanied people throughout them where we have made sure they dot every I and cross every T, and they have kept their jobs and things have continued to be ok. It does depend on the company but I would say proceed with caution.

PPs advice to proceed with caution is good.

A person can turn things around on a PIP but it can be the first step on the journey to get rid of someone.

I’d also advise proceeding with caution. I’ve used them to help people get up to scratch in the past, but I’ve also worked with managers who use them to manage people out.

If they’re being unclear/obstructive with feedback, maybe she has a case to say they’re setting her up to fail?

Get her to call ACAS and have a confidential conversation with them. She can give them the breadth of detail needed for a helpful response.

I hope everything works out well for her!

I think it really depends.

I've done a couple of PIPs for people I manage and can, hand on heart, say it was with the hope and intention of supporting them to improve. I have wanted them to stay and would hope the language I used and the way I approached those PIPs would reflect that.

But I also know they have been used by others as a necessary step along the road to dismissal.

I think how the manager behaves may give a clue. There will either be sense they are rooting for the employee, perhaps by going to good lengths to explain what needs improvement, to consider anything the employee says they need to support improvement and to keep talking to them throughout the PIP to give them good feedback on how they are doing.

If it's all a bit 'you are shit at this, get better' and not much else except what is needed by law to perform the PIP, then I would guess that manager has already decided they want them gone.

IME PIPs are often the beginning of the end, but not always.

If it’s done fairly with manageable targets, and proper routes for assessment and regular evaluation, then your friend should be able to show she is up to the job. And if she isn’t up to the job, then that could be on her! If 9/10 team members can reach the targets asked, and 1 can’t, then chances are that it is a genuine performance issue.

However if she’s unfairly targeted, and given unreachable targets or targets that are different to others at the same level with a view to pushing her out, then that’s completely different.

As a people manager it all depends on the business and the manager. I was brought into a business to get rid of someone via PIP however my personal and professional opinion is it should be about coaching through the process or you are failing in your job as a manager. This person turned out to be the top performer and found that the previous manager had just promoted them with no training and expected them to get on with it. I have however PIP managed people into dismissal but I can hand on heart say I put my full efforts in and they just couldnt be bothered and were lazy. Also what concerns me here is that your friend sounds surprised they are on a PIP which is VERY bad management. I always state a performance review should never be a surprise to them or me as we should have had plenty of discussions prior to a review which would then lead to PIP.

The way I've used them they are a bit of a last ditch attempt to get someone to turn it around. The goal is to get them working well again but if they don't then it's a necessary step to dismiss them. They're generally pretty easy to pass.

I think it was a surprise to the line manager to and at mid year calibration his rating had been changed and in made worse.

^ rating given by her line manager is what I meant by ‘his rating’

i would refuse to accept that rating and highlight with HR that they are refusing to accept it as it was not what was discussed and agreed in the review and has been amended after without any further discussion. Sounds like they are covering their arses to be honest. Please tell her to document EVERYTHING from now on.

Will that cause more troubles ?

I’ve only ever done them with fairly new staff who need extra support to show whether they can get to the desired level or not
in most cases sadly it hasn’t worked out although one recently tried really hard to turn things around and smashed it

I've used them when people are performing badly. You can put in support and additional training where it's relevant but if the individual won't put the effort in they shouldn't be surprised if the company wont continue to employ them.

One particularly frustrating example was an employee who was never on time. Even after multiple reminders/informal chats/more formal meetings. We offered different shift times & part time hours, but no. Every time she was going to improve, but never did.

Even after the improve or else conversation, she was still surprised that her employment was terminated.

TBH it depends on the business, mine is a reputable business and this happened to me once but here we have to sign off our ratings. i refused but went back directly to my manager to say this issue wasnt discussed. We then had a meeting and the situation was rectified (i was fuming about the way it was done). If they dont get anywhere with the line manager i would want it documented with HR in case it was used against me down the line which is what could potentially happen to your friend. She could possibly look at going to a tribunal if things are not managed the right way so she needs all the evidence she can get. It would appear the rating was downgraded as it wasnt low enough to justify a PIP. It doesnt sound great for your friend the way things are going though and if they do leave I would be looking at constructive dismissal. Do they have or can they get access to a union even if it isnt recognised by the business it is only a couple of pounds a month and they will get lot of good legal advise as well.