AIBU to discourage DC from entering public sector careers?

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DD17, DD14 and DS12 have all been talking a lot about jobs they’d like to do lately. They are all very different fish, 2 very academic girls and one creative but not so book smart DS. Their schools to introduce a broad range of careers, but their teachers (understandably) seem to know more about public sector roles such as teaching, legal aid law and health professions (there’s a special ‘get into medicine course DD was encouraged to do).

When I started out, there were good options for people looking to work in the public sector. I headed into a helping profession in a Local Authority (but struggled with the inflexibility and have since moved into private practice). Friends were looking forward to careers in medicine, teaching and the civil service. A couple were pretty snobby about the moral superiority of public sector roles ( I remember an physio friend asking a trainee actuary friend how they got up each morning with such a boring job). Others headed into law, banking, consultancy etc. We were all very well educated and had many options.

However, at 45, things have all come out in the wash, and (with a few exceptions, notably two doctors who are independently wealthy, and a diplomat), those who chose private sector jobs are not just much wealthier but also seem to enjoy more flexible, varied roles and just seem happier in their work. Friends in the public sector complain that they are burnt out, struggling financially and stuck in their jobs with few other options.

AIBU to at least encourage DC to consider that public sector careers might not be the best idea any more? Obviously, they’ll choose what they choose, but to me, the difference between private and public sector roles (especially in London/SE) nowadays seems pretty stark.

I think you’re oversimplifying the type of roles that are available in the public sector. There are so many interesting roles beyond the obvious (eg statistician, trade lawyer, economist, prosecutor, data scientist, marine biologist, park ranger, managing historic buildings, etc) and the public sector often has better remuneration for the hours worked.

FWIW I went to Oxbridge (fairly recent grad) and civil service has been one of the most popular options among my classmates after law and financial services. In fact there are some that went into CS law and financial services (Bank of England/Treasury/FCA) as well as the more standard fast stream.

I agree.

I have plenty of criticisms about the public sector (some I have shared on this thread!) but I think the covid vaccine rollout was a huge success.

But my post wasn't about how marvellous the NHS is, it was about much more efficient the private sector usually is.
my point is that it is difficult to get on board with how understaffed the NHS is when it is probably overstaffed in the first place. Using my example, I reckon that was five more people than a private sector equivalent would deploy. Yet, in NHS terms, if they only had two staff they would be understaffed by five. Does that make sense?
I was in hospital for a prolonged time a couple of years ago and it really opened my eyes. I am not sure where this nirvana of free parking, finishing on the dot, never working through breaks (not that I have ever had defined breaks) and high pay is in the private sector, but it's not something I have ever experienced in my professional role.

Those were volunteers ....

I know because I did it for a year. Happily I could flex my paid job in the public sector so I caught up on evenings and weekends. Most of the people you will have seen that day were volunteers. There will have been paid security (and sadly we did need that), paid reception staff and paid nurses/vaccinators.

The ones giving directions, standing under signs etc would have been volunteers.

I work in ICU as a nurse. When the covid jab was being rolled out we were offered the opportunity to volunteer (on top of our usual day/ night shifts) at the vaccination centres in various roles. So some of those people pointing the way may have been colleagues who were quite rightly wearing their uniform to do extra work to help with the roll out.
As you can imagine we were quite excited about the vaccine rollout after watching people die of the virus and so some people did volunteer their time. Nice to know you are so judgemental of them just trying to make the whole thing easier for the public. Many of the people going for those first jabs were understandably apprehensive and people just wanted to help.

I've been in hospitals more times than you can shake a stick at in my 47 years - certainly not all for me, mostly to do with family and friends and the impression is certainly not of overstaffing. Inefficiency, certainly, at times, but that's often due to getting rid of admin not having too many cooks.

Agree. Flexible working (sometimes not working), sick leave, crazy high pensions, a lot of annual leave and pay rises. I got 3% this year in private sector. I feel like a looser.

I would not encourage my children to take an NHS job simply because then they can avoid all the judgemental NHS staff bashing that goes on as it is really demoralising. We work bloody hard but the reward is seeing patients get better or supporting families when they don’t.

I wouldn’t discourage it

Dd currently would like to be a doctor, she’s young and also wants to be a scientist and artist

Great fine with the first two, third is nice but can be tricky

Oh and @Katypp when you can’t leave your patient’s side for 12.5 hours unless someone is watching over them to alter the drug rates every minute if required then yes we need our breaks- so that we can do stuff like….. oh you know go for a piss or change a tampon.

yes,

but the salary it is based on is being reduced in real terms.

So, yes, the input amounts have an inflation factor applied, but if my salary is £50k this year, and still £50k in 2045, when in real terms it would be worth maybe 65-70k - the actual value of the pension is less.

Plus LTA is fixed and doesn't increase with inflation, further diminishing the maximum value over time.

Oh @Katypp and when your colleague has been attacked leaving work after a late shift in the dark then yea - people want access to safe secure parking.

I moved from the private sector to public. I took a pay cut overall, though not if you compare actual hours worked. I was doing 50-60 hour weeks in the private sector, with unachievable targets, awful management, backstabbing colleagues, and a regular requirement to deliberately mislead customers in order to make more money. Now I have a supportive team, I can rely on finishing work at 5pm, and I'm making one small bit of the world a better place.

Obviously this will vary role to role - I know long hours, unachievable targets and awful management will strike a bell with a lot of teachers. I think it helps to have a job that also exists in the private sector because senior managers know it's very easy for us to leave for more money if the non-financial benefits disappear.

Re vaccination centre volunteering, I did it and was given an honorary contract with the NHS. No name badge, just a high vis vest, but on paper I was "employed" by them so not surprised to hear others did get a badge. The organisation got a lot more efficient as time went on but I think it was sensible to overstaff at first as we just didn't know how people would behave.

IME private sector renumeration is much better for professions which are generally in demand. You mentioned data scientist - 60K is very achievable 5 years after graduating with no line management responsibilities and as a middling individual contributor. In the public sector this salary is for a 'senior' role. Same hours.

Public prosecutors are notoriously underpaid which is why they went on strike late last year.

Of course, I agree there are many opportunities, and it's not just the base salary - working at governing bodies that you mentioned gives you a nice fat pay bump when you move to the private sector...

I'm trying to encourage DD into civil service for the flexible hours and extra days holiday (which will suit her passion for horses, she'd be able to ride before work or after work really easily and have time off for competing) and for the pension - DH is thinking of retiring and is looking into it at the moment and we are amazed how much pension he will get.

Also realised I didn't answer the question 🤣
YABU OP.
You need to look at specific roles...

Also, if she were to volunteer with a horse charity could get paid volunteer leave as well. I'm aware this type of leave is available in the private sector, but in my Whitehall department we are actively encouraged to use these types of benefits. All helps for a more contented workforce (excepting pay).

Haven't read all of this however I think you have to bear in mind that different sectors suit different personalities. I have worked in the private sector all my life apart from past 3 years where I've worked with the public sector (non-profit and local authority stakeholders) on a partnership project. I would rather put hot needles in my eyes than ever do it again, I don't give a shit about the pension benefits. Working in the private sector has so much more challenge, satisfaction and so many more opportunities. The glacial pace and lack of accountability in local authorities are not for me.

Or maybe this is a tiny observation of over staffing under COVID protections.

My team has been cut from 120 to 15. Same expectations of the LA role, slightly less clients. We are expected to do more to maintain the same service and standards.

I won't go into what I do specifically but I've worked across Policy from development to delivery with a stint in Private Office in the more competitive Whitehall departments (think CO, HMT, DBT, FCDO). I've worked with Ministers and high-ranking officials. The work I do, has a real impact and is highly rewarding. I'm not paid as much as I would be in the Financial Sector, Consulting or Law (especially Law!!) but I have carved out a good work-life balance that has given me more than money can buy.

I'm not saying that those in Ops working out of HO, DWP or HMRC don't have an impact, they do, just not one I'd care to have. Nor deal with. I hate dealing with the general public. I've also heard those departments have terrible cultures. Not that I'm surprised, I had to visit Caxton House and I felt the life drain out of me.

On MN, I hear that teachers have the hardest job in the world

IRL, I know several teachers. They have reasonable workloads, (generally home by 5pm), don't work in school holidays (except exam results day), lengthy school holidays, 6 month sick pay if required, unions fighting their corner and gold-plated pensions. I think they have a good work life balance. They might earn more in private sector, but not necessarily. Many private sector roles don't pay well

Are you a teacher?

That is so not what teaching is like. But continue to pedal the falicy

My husband works in the public sector and is actively discouraging my DS to join. The pay does not match the responsibilities, less staff than there should be, red tape, stress. In my husbands sector they are leaving in droves, quite literally. Is the pension good, yes, but the terms keep changing, paying in more, working longer and getting back less. He currently pays in around 15% so its not as great as it seems!

OP it looks like your public sector experience was in Local Government - which is notoriously shit. It's a case of picking the right public sector job.

I work for an economic regulator - we get flexible working, decent pay (better than the CS) and pensions, generous sick and parental, leave policies, annual bonuses, private healthcare, good offices, free tea and coffee, subsidised gym and canteen. The work is interesting and jobs are pretty secure.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow No, I'm not a teacher, but have several.in the family and have discussed working conditions with them on many occasions