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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be done with worrying over this lazy stubborn man?

19 replies

LaMaG · 16/07/2023 19:41

My highly eccentric Dad has lived alone in the family home for about 20 years now. He has never cleaned properly, does not believe in spending money on upkeep or any trades and refuses to throw anything away. I cannot exaggerate the amount of times my siblings and i have offered to help or suggested he do X or Y, he will absolutely refuse to discuss. I live about 30 mins away, I have a sibling abroad with a family and another a few hours away that comes "home" for weekends or Christmas and keeps her room in the house. He wont even let her throw her own things out as he goes through the bins and brings things back into the house, I don't mean he notices something in the bedroom bin, I mean he goes through the large wheelie bin to make sure no one is removing anything from the house. He doesn't open any cupboards as they are "full" but puts everything on display, for example a whole unit is full of 90s VHS tapes so the mantle and shelves are now full of clutter. I dont want to paint a picture of a lonely tragic widower, he has a great social life and has been involved in loads of local charity work and eats out regularly, goes abroad on holidays at least twice a year. He is a passionate gardener and has a large high maintenance garden, he also scrubs up well so the issue is really the house. Its been so sad being unable to host anything there for years and i dont even visit if I can avoid it.

In recent years the issues worsened considerably, there wasn't enough counter space to even put a breadboard down in the kitchen, and we were concerned about fire hazards - imagine electrics repaired with tape beside flammable liquids, with exits blocked by junk. All interventions failed again. A year ago he became very ill and needed post surgery recovery so we had to clear a dining room to make a temporary bedroom, this also gave us access to the house for the first time. We did not throw anything away (despite being really tempted!!) so as not to upset him but we organised his admin, labelled everything and threw away paper and recycling left lying around - all 7 refuse bags of it. We cleaned out cupboards and found kitchen condiments and medicine 10-15 years out of date. We hoped the clean up of the kitchen and dining room would inspire more decluttering but it was shot down very quickly when suggested. He needs to avoid stress so we have now accepted this is how he will live the rest of his years. We did however hire a cleaner when he was recovering and she was kept on weekly so at least he was living in a clean mess for once.

I called down a few days ago and I knew at once something was off. The usually threadbare and badly stained carpet had a new layer of dirt and the kitchen counter was covered again. The bathroom was dirty. I asked about the cleaner and he ignored me and changed topic (his usual tactic) but later my sister who was home texted to say he admitted he let the cleaner go as he "didn't need her anymore". I am raging, I replied that she could tell him that he could live in his own dirt if he chose but I refuse to clean his house for him. He is old and in poor health now and I know it sounds mean, but he did nothing for years when he had his health and refused all help for so long and I am sick of him. I know sadly the day will come when I have to help care for him but he is impossible. I have a young family and a job and hardly get a minute to myself, visiting once every 2 weeks or so is enough of a strain but I cant stand to be in that disgusting house now and I feel so angry with him. Anyone else understand or have thoughts on how I deal with this?

OP posts:
LaMaG · 16/07/2023 21:22

Bump!!

OP posts:
LaMaG · 19/07/2023 17:17

Bump... again! Anybody?

OP posts:
Calvinlookingforhobbes · 19/07/2023 17:23

YANBU. I feel for you, OP. This is not your responsibility. You sound like a lovely daughter and you have tried. Your sister has tried. He is capable of making decisions and living the consequences of them. Try to disengage and meet him for coffee/supper out of his house?

Sapphire387 · 19/07/2023 17:30

He's your dad, and he appears to be capable in other areas, but has a hoarding problem. I think it's up to him. Agree with PP to meet him away from the house instead. Leave him to it.

Pixiedust1234 · 19/07/2023 17:31

I read your post the day you made it but hoped others could post my words more kindly.

Drop the rope. That means stop doing anything. He is a grown adult who can/has made his own decisions and now needs to live with the consequences of those decisions.

I know sadly the day will come when I have to help care for him but he is impossible.
No, you don't have to help care for him. He can have carers come in. Cleaners. Go in a residential home. He has options. Think about what he would do if you lived in another country, he can do that. Stop trying to bail him out since he's not a willing participant, it will send you insane.

Ofcourseshecan · 19/07/2023 17:42

OP, I feel for you. I have a much smaller version of the same problem with an elderly relative-in-law whose children ignore her except to ask for money.

DH and I visit every couple of weeks and clean and tidy as much as we can. She could easily afford a cleaner, and we would pay for one if she couldn’t. But she refuses to have ‘strangers’ in her house. She is convinced she can look after herself, but she visibly isn’t managing.

In your case, OP, I suppose you just have to leave him to it. He needs help as it’s a mental-health issue, but if you can’t persuade him, there’s nothing you can do. You just have to meet him elsewhere.

LaMaG · 19/07/2023 21:28

Thanks everyone for your replies, and I'm so relieved you felt I wasn't being unreasonable. Sometimes its hard to tell. I have an aunt who has often expressed surprise that we haven't "sorted things out for him" and always makes me feel guilty by asking if I'm making sure he is eating ok / looking after himself etc. She is related on the other side so doesn't really have a relationship with him herself.

I used to invite him to my house for dinner every once in a while, what's changed is that I don't think he should be driving on the main roads with 120km limits and thats the only way to my house. I suppose I'll have to compromise by meeting in his town at a local cafe or hotel. I also can't understand how my sister can stay there, it makes my skin crawl but each to their own as they say! Its good for him that he has someone who hangs out with him for longer periods, she is more tolerant of him that I am, not just the house but the endless monologues about himself too.

OP posts:
PunishmentRoundupWithJoon · 19/07/2023 21:39

Re your aunt and "sorting things out for him" - have you ever told her plainly how things stand? That he refuses help? Not that it's your responsibility - you have nothing to feel guilty about! You sorted a lot of things out for him hired a cleaner

  • that he then let go!

What's your sisters room like? I'm just wondering if it's as cluttered as the rest of the house?

Hoarding is a mental health condition, not easy to deal with. No suggestions but lots of sympathy.

Keykat · 19/07/2023 21:47

You have tried and you should congratulate yourself for that. The situation is impossible to solve and worrying about it and feeling guilty are normal things to feel. However your Dad is a hoarder and mentally ill with that. He will not change and nothing you can do will help in the long run.

I see he has an active social life and holidays. Good, that should reassure you that he is not becoming a hermit. If he wants to live in dirt and chaos let him do that. He is a "street angel and a house devil", therefore to those he meets socially he is charming and wonderful, but to you he is a stubborn difficult man. You cannot change it, so I would back away. Keep in contact but refuse to visit him at his house. Your sister can do what she wants but you can do the same by not crossing his filthy hoardhouse again.

By all means meet him in his "street angel" mode outside the house somewhere and keep contact, but on your terms. Do not let the auntie influence you. Ask her to visit him and see what she thinks. Bet she will shut up pretty quickly. You have enough on your plate without the "flying monkey" aunt putting more pressure on you, she will have to be ignored or just nod and smile at her.

Best of luck. Remember you will never change him, he will never change so preserve yourself.

LaMaG · 19/07/2023 21:55

PunishmentRoundupWithJoon · 19/07/2023 21:39

Re your aunt and "sorting things out for him" - have you ever told her plainly how things stand? That he refuses help? Not that it's your responsibility - you have nothing to feel guilty about! You sorted a lot of things out for him hired a cleaner

  • that he then let go!

What's your sisters room like? I'm just wondering if it's as cluttered as the rest of the house?

Hoarding is a mental health condition, not easy to deal with. No suggestions but lots of sympathy.

Yes I've been frank with my aunt, and I think its more her words echoing in my ears every time she asks after him than her actually harassing me!

Re my sister, her room is cluttered but tidy. She left a lot of stuff there and it doesn't bother her. Sometimes when i come to visit I pretend to "borrow" clothes so I can put things for the charity shop in my car without my Dad noticing. I've "borrowed" a lot of books too! Sometimes we would wait til he went to the shop or something and then fill my boot, its ridiculous the things we have to do. What does annoy me is that my sis stays often and it wouldn't occur to her to even once run a cloth over a windowsill or surface, he wouldn't have noticed. I had to deep clean some rooms that time I had access and there was about 5 years of dust built up, I don't have access to those rooms as they are mostly shut off but he opens one room for Christmas and she sits there for 2 weeks and doesn't even wipe a surface!! I don't think she sees the dirt either but the mess drives her mad.

OP posts:
littleripper · 19/07/2023 22:01

Let it go OP and meet him elsewhere. I am sorry.

BunnyBettChetwynd · 19/07/2023 22:18

I had a very wise aunt who would have said to you, 'You can only live your own life'.

You can't live your dad's life for him, he chooses to live how he sees fit and it seems he has possession of his faculties and is well enough to present himself and his garden to the world.

You've tried, you can do no more. You have to back off for your own peace of mind. It doesn't matter what your aunt or anyone else thinks, you know you've tried your best. Let him be and enjoy some peace of mind.

Walesagogo · 19/07/2023 23:14

You've done all you can. Perhaps you should suggest to your aunt that she has a chat with him about the hoarding and then she'll understand how difficult it is. He's happy living like a pig in muck as the saying goes so the only person who is getting stressed about it is you.
Must be frustrating but you need to let it go for your own sanity.

Errolwasahero · 20/07/2023 16:41

This sounds like someone I know. Totally delusional and mentally ill; but it’s impossible do to anything for him because he is a narcissist and knows better than everyone else.

at some point we have to accept that some people can’t be helped and make sure we look after ourselves first and foremost 😘

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 20/07/2023 17:17

Have you tried pointing out to your Dad that if he has another bout of ill health that it is likely he won't be allowed to return home? That social services will see the filth as a sign he can't look after himself? Doubly so if the internal repair and hoarding is a hazard.

If he is not receptive to having the cleaner back then you need to resign yourself to it and as per pp you should insist on meeting him elsewhere. You can only do so much.

CornishTiger · 20/07/2023 17:39

He’s a hoarder. It’s a mental health condition. No amount of cleaning or intervention will work unless he is prepared to get to the root cause of it all.

Look up your local councils hoarding policy and consider a referral to adult safeguarding and fire service if you can.

Meet away from property and make it clear why or meet in garden for short visits.

Where is your Mum? I’m asking as I’m wondering as hoarding is often associated with a grief or loss of some kind. An inability to get rid of items including rubbish as they attach a significant to it. So complex

CornishTiger · 20/07/2023 17:42

That’s a fantastic article @allthebeautifulflowers I’m going to share that within my team.

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