Aibu… please help-childcare costs

[Northernlass13]

Hi all,
please can you all advise as I need to know if I’m being unreasonable.
My DS attends a nursery 20 hours a week as his funded hours have started.
I am aware that these hours are TT only and can be stretched over the year (this was agreed with the manager) he gets 30 hours per week

my ds is settled and happy BUT…. they keep sending loads of bills (I means loads) for hundreds every month.
I questioned this every time and explain that his place is funded but now they have said that the bills have been wrong but I do have to pay £80 pcm.
when I asked why, they have said that it goes on per term and he only gets 360 per term and there is a shortfall…. I really don’t understand as he only goes 20 hours per week and and he’s eligible for 30? (Or 21 when stretched) please can someone help as I’m so stressed out about this
thanks

I also should say that in an email they said that if he started in September he would get the full 21 hours per week? Is this right????

Have you given them your 30hr funding code from tax free childcare?

They should have fee sheets that how show cost per session for different ages, and for funded and non funded days, and stretch or TT only. You need to look at this and work out what you think you owe and then go back to them.

Every nursery is different, most don't offer the blanket 30, you may only be able to claim say 8-12 and 1-6 everyday and you would have to pay full rate for 12-1 as an example, which is why you need to see the nursrry specifix fee sheet

I think the issue is the summer holidays are long, so the funding they receive for the summer term has to stretch over an extra 6 weeks, so it works out at less hours per week. If you start in September then presumably they can 'save' some of the hours for the summer. It's all such a nightmare to work out though and comes from inadequate funding from the government.

They should provide you with an itemised breakdown.
my son attends 50 hours per week with stretched funding of 22 hours per week so I pay for 28 hours. It’s split on the invoice I receive into a monthly amount.

How old is he?
They don't get the funded hours until the term after they turn 3, so that could be what they mean by September.

Do they stretch the hours over individual terms? The summer one will be longer if he is attending during July and August. Some places average it out over the year but some only do it on a term by term basis.

Do they have any extra fees you need to cover?

Did you not discuss the fees before he started?

Thanks for the replies everyone… it’s helpful..
you guys have helped me more than them!!

so he only started the term after he turned 3 and no explained about the terms…
he started in April.
I know it’s under funded but we are trying so hard with the cost of living and I’m just mad it wasn’t explained to us.
I asked the Manager if it could be stretched over the year and they said yes. We were under the impression it was 21 hours per week (which was agreed)
i don’t know if this makes sense but if he’s going for the full year at 20 hours and I still have to pay, surely I’ll be owed hours?? As I’ll have l
paid for a short fall in some terms?? Does that make sense

when you say he attends 20 hours a week, is this the physical time he is in the nurseries care? they are likely charging for the full "session" he is booked onto, e.g. if nursery is open 7:00am till 6:00pm and you only use the hours of say 11:00am till 3:00pm they likely count it as 11 hours (the most you could have used that day), not 4 (what you did use that day).

Hope that makes sense?

They make up the shortfall from the funded hours by charging for things like food.
The hours are funded not free there will be money to pay every month. It's term time only as you know that means loads of weeks including the whole of august not paid for. I think that equates to more than 20 hours a week over if stretched over the year.

They need to give you a breakdown though as every nursery is different.

It's also worth noting that the funded hours are pretty much nowhere near enough to cover the costs for nursery, they will always be looking to try and recover some of the loss they are taking where they can... (food, nappies even wipes!) the only other option is to charge non funded hours parents more (which they generally need to do too).

What do the bills they send actually say?

Are they charging you for additional hours?
Teaching?
Consumables?

The invoice should breakdown what hours are funded and what are not, and what extra costs they are charging you for. You should have applied for a code for the 30 hours, and given that to your nursery?

The 30 hours can be allocated by term or over the 12 months, you are correct, but they can also be allocated per session, so a 3 hour morning session, a 3 hour afternoon session etc. Or it could just be the number of hours in a full day etc. So you might end up paying per day for anything above those two sessions per day, depending on how they allocate the funded hours.

For context my dd is in full time nursery and has the hours over 12 months, I pay an additional £650 or so per month to cover the extra hours and meals etc. My invoice shows per day funded hours, paid hours and paid extras.

It depends how your nursery charges but for example my 3yo does 8-6, 2 days a week and our monthly bill is still just over £200. The funding only covers the core hours 9-3 so anything before and after is charged at the full rate. Also this is across 51 weeks rather than term time only.
I think you need to clarify with them.

Hi thanks again for the replies
so to answer a few questions….
-yes I have my code which I have given them.
-the nursery is all inclusive so they provide everything.
-He goes two days a week for 10 hours a day for two days.
-the invoice is very basic and just says sessions and an amount.

when I Have asked for more information they just say it’s to do with terms as he only gets 360 hours per term. I never really get a straight answer out of them! His agreement is that it’s stretched over the year… so I feel like he’s missing out on his funded hours as they say they can only give 16 hours per week. Even tho his agreement is for 20 hours.
I know it’s under funded and the staff are amazing. Me and my partner are both newly self employed and we have cut back so much so every penny is counted for. I feel like the nursery haven’t really been totally clear, even when asked. This has been going on since April and I have asked over over again and told it’s fine!

Hi this is interesting, can I ask… why does your funds only cover 9-3? X

It could be the time op. my son is 30hrs funded, if I use 20 one week, I can't claim 40 the next. My son is term time only or I could do 21 every week including holidays. The hours can only be used between 9-3. I supply all my sons food, toiletries etc. I'd have to pay if I wanted the nursery to.

If the stretched funding is 21 then you should get all 20 hours free. Be aware though they you may get a consumables charge - food, activities, resources. Is this what the bill is for?

Funding is always worked out termly, there are strict dates and deadlines for each term.

Essentially the summer term is 12 weeks (in my LA) so the maximum they can claim for home.is 12x30= 360 hours to be divided from April -August which is 20 weeks.

So that's a max of 18 hours per week.

You won't be owed hours, they can't be carrier over.

Also the funding that you get does not cover food, Nappies, sun cream etc. We had the same- 21 hours per week across the year but paid £80 per month for 'consumables' as was detailed on our invoice.

They are entitled to only fund certain session times eg 9-3 or 8-12 then 1-4, then charge you for the rest. They can also charge for nappies, wipes, food, outings etc.

For 10 hours funding, the nursery could be receiving as little as £40, how much would their usual day fee be? They need to make up the shortfall or they will close.

What does your contract say?

We could only do 9-4 I think on funded hours. We had to pay for 7:30-9 and then 4-6 as these are the hours they’re open. No wiggle room. They also charged for lunch and snacks.

At £80 per month I imagine it’s consumables like food and nappies.

I am charged £3 per day for consumables, with hours stretched for year round

Does he get food at nursery? We got charged a tenner a day for meals and other extra bits. That was back in 2020 so it may be more now.
That would explain £80 a month.

My DD does 21hrs per week as has stretched hours, we pay £36pm which is for her lunch and snacks. It sounds like somethings not right with your bill especially if you’re getting charged hundreds and he only goes twice a week!

The hours are funded not free there will be money to pay every month

This. If you're hoping there's a magic way to send him 20 hours and pay zero, its highly unlikely. Almost all settings have to either limit the number of free hours used and charge some hours at full rate, add consumables or other top ups.

Its likely what you are being charged is some construct that results in your bill each month being roughly equal to the gap between the government funding per hour (something like £4.60) and their actually hourly rate (probably £7+). The semantics of how they describe it doesn't really matter, they have to find a way to charge you that amount or they would go bust.