Internal job applicants grrr....

[NameChange245]

I'm in a job where, to make the leap to the next pay band is hard as 1. There a few posts nationally, and 2. Within my own organisation the 2 people in this role are not planning to leave any time in the next 10 years (and even if they were, there are others on my pay grade who'd go for the job and may get it ahead of me).

I have applied for jobs in this higher band elsewhere I the country 3 times in the last 3 years (that's how often they come up). The last two times the job went to an internal candidate. The most recent interview (last week) I got the distinct feeling an internal candidate had already been picked. I am waiting to hear if I have got the job but am 95% sure I haven't and an internal candidate has been safely secured the job since before my interview

AIBU to hate the fact that jobs who have already been ear marked for someone often have to been advertised externally? It's a waste of everyone's bloody time and money. I bought new clothes for the interview, wasted time preparing, travelled quite far (so had to take the whole day off for the interview). Not to mention the emotional toil (I loved the job spec, the panel, the role, everything! I realllly wanted this job!! and had the skills and experience)

I have been on the other foot as an interviewer, where I have a great employee wanting to step up, but have to go to the faff of advertising and interviewing just to select the candidate I had in mind all along. It's unfair on the external applicants and a big waste of time for them and me. It is pointless.

I work in the public sector and it worries me how much money is wasted needlessly advertising posts externally which are unlikely to go to an external.

Having been on both sides of the coin here, I just find that I hate the process so much! Why can't we have a process of promotion - so if someone is doing well we can step them up to the new pay band without the need to advertise and the person have to be interviewed against external applicants? It would save so much time and money, not to mention that it would mean when a job is advertised externally, external candidates do actually stand a chance.

Grrr... rant over!

Oh yes, this drives me insane too!!

Although if you're the internal candidate who needs more money, it's a bit shit because you can't convince them with a fancy new outfit and full face of makeup that it's how you dress every day - especially as there's a good chance you've had to be doing your usual job up until five minutes before the interview time, so you look less perfect than an external who has just had to get there and waft in looking amazing.

For the roles where I've been internal and they've gone for the other candidate, they've always turned out to be less than fantastic. But they looked good on the day, I'll give them that.

This has happened to me twice in the last few months. Have spent a whole weekend doing the application, a whole weekend preparing a presentation and for the interview and then had great interviews, lovely feedback but no job, such a waste of time and resources but that’s HR law for you, so frustrating for everyone concerned. I may just start contacting before I apply to ask actually as I knew someone was getting a promotion at work recently into a new role and it had only just been advertised! They know who they’re giving it to, such a waste.

I agree OP.

In my workplace we do internal recruitment first and only go external if we can't fill with an internal candidate.

It wastes everyone's time and money otherwise.

I much prefer to promote from within if there are viable candidates. That then usually creates a role for an external albeit at a lower level. I can't understand why companies go external if they have a good internal? It's far more motivating for staff to know that there is a good career path with a company and it saves a lot of time and money for all.

It's a stupid policy to have to advertise all roles externally imo.

@NameChange245 i also work in the public sector, and was similarly stuck in a very bottom heavy structure. I had well outgrown my role. This sounds mad, but actually what worked was applying for 2 grades up!! I had to make a huge effort to volunteer for tasks, seek out opportunities, lots of mentoring etc, but I skipped a grade. Not deliberately, but I thought I had nothing to lose by applying for it.

Perhaps I'm naive but I don't believe jobs in the public sector are already allocated. I think the interview processes are as fair as possible and the person that gets the job is the one that performed best on the day not necessarily the best applicant or the internal candidate they all wanted. If it does go to an insider it's because they answered the Qs well and had the necessary experience.
Gone are the days when you can just like the look of someone.

My last 3 nhs interviews… second place each time as an internal candidate had direct experience. Two of them I knew from working with them in joint organisation meetings. One I like the other is useless… that one still stings especially when I hear others talking about how awful she is and how they’ve no idea how she got the job.

Two interviews were one organisation. After first they told me I was too senior and please please apply for new role… which they then didn’t give me. Their behaviour has shown me I wouldn’t want to work in that team so I guess it worked out. The other time was frustrating but they were very nice and helpful feedback so I feel less annoyed at that one.

@JudgeRudy I’m senior roles they often have an idea as the pool of experienced people is narrow.

Do any of these jobs keep a merit list of candidates who were only just second choice? That is the way I got my most recent role, I didn't get the job, it was given to an internal candidate for but got merit listed and when another job with the same JD in the nearby geographical area was advertised I was offered it.

I think the alternative of having a huge pool of just internal jobs isn't overly fair either, I know this used to be common in the public sector but a) you miss out on experienced candidates who have worked elsewhere, b) you often end up with people getting comfortable and then being promoted as they know the job rather than being the best person for it, c) invariably most of the external jobs are then lower bands and grades which again means you miss out on external candidates who don't want to start from the bottom as it were. I agree it's a waste of time in certain sectors where they can do what they like a bit, but the process should still be followed in the public sector. We have employed people who applied externally over internal candidates who didn't perform as well.

Blame the ridiculous UC rules for that, claimants have to do so many applications it is no surprise that they just end up applying for anything especially if going through portals that will self populate the majority of fields.

I work in the NHS and the majority of our posts are advertised externally.

I procured one a band up, but, I worked hard for it and tbh, I am excellent at interviews.

Have seen numerous posts go external, to really good applicants.

I have also interviewed and appointed internal applicants as they were excellent. The external applicants were nowhere near as good. And tbh, with staffing levels so low internally, successful external applicants would have been a bonus to the department.

I loved running a small company and having the opportunity to just pick and choose whether we advertised externally or not.

Almost always, our preference was not to create a role, but to develop people up through their desired trajectory, provided that was something useful for the company.

New external hires were mostly starter grades.

Every job should be required to say if they have an internal candidate. I just applied for a job with very niche requirements which I fulfilled. I didn’t even get an interview. I was told by someone close to the company that that was probably because they’d have to take me if they interviewed me and didn’t want to do that because they already had someone internally lined up for the job.

It annoys me and I resent wasting my time applying for a job they’d already lined up for their mate.

Public sector and have recruited a number of times. Both internal and external candidates have been appointed.

An internal candidate is frequently in a stronger position as they know the organisation and the team, but even if you have a preferred candidate at the start of the process, you don’t know if they are going to apply, if they will be shortlisted or be successful at interview. Even is someone is a strong candidate on paper, they don’t always perform well at interview. I have had internal candidates think that they will be a natural for the position and don’t put the necessary effort into the process, make massive assumptions when responding to questions at interview and consequentially don’t score well. I have had other internal candidates that have been a bag of nerves and didn’t come across well.

tbh a lot of the time an external candidate would have been preferred as an internal candidate being successful then creates a vacancy and the whole process starts again. At the end of the day it boils down to the highest scoring candidate and if candidates scored equally, it would have been the best fit. Best fit isn’t necessarily an internal candidate.

At the moment I'm the internal candidate being lined up for a position and I do feel a bit guilty about it. I can't apply for another couple of months for various reasons so the department manager is waiting until I give him the nod before he advertises it. He wants me to do the job so it would be much easier if he could just give it me and not have to put everyone through this nonsense.

Thanks! I've thought about it, just not sure I have the confidence! Thanks for the tip though and who knows! ...maybe....

Is it private or public sector? If its private they don't need to advertise it so why bother? If its public they might get an excellent candidate which will be awkward for you!

We keep a list where I work. We went through a hiring process for one of my teams a few months ago, and a few weeks after finalizing it another vacancy came up and rather than re-advertise we called our second choice who was still available and he took the job. So some places really do keep your CV on file for future roles, it's not just a line.

This has happened to me so many times - even flew to foreign countries just to be told they were going with the internal candidate after all.
Until their preferred candidate messed up their interview so badly they couldn’t justify hiring them. That’s how I got my current job. It can happen! (just bring your voodoo doll)

Voodoo doll at the ready!! 👍

It's such an unfair way of doing things, happens so much in charities. I always remember one candidate who came for an interview somewhere I worked, and I was the one who saw him out - he was beaming, thought the interview had gone so well. Turns out he was a friend of a friend, who later said to me that week how much the guy wanted the job. I knew it was always going to go to the internal candidate, but couldn't pass that on through our mutual friend, so he never knew why he really didn't get it.

Huge waste of everyone's time: the panel going through the farce of shortlisting and interviewing, the admins who dealt with the job packs, and most importantly anyone who completed an application and took time off work to interview. Just to have the appearance of being open.

The company I work for does this. They have a policy of advertising all jobs, even if they already know who they want, because they have to be seen to be fair.

I’d argue that letting people waste their time applying and interviewing for a job they have zero chance of getting, is completely unfair.

I’m on the employer end and I hate it too. Rules say we HAVE to advertise externally even though Internal Candidate has worked with us for two years is a super user on the relevant systems and brings in cookies for people’s birthdays.