To think 12yo DD could fly unaccompanied minor

[overwroughtmummy]

I have a daughter that lives in the USA with her other mum. We have an informal parenting agreement that we drew up when we divorced that says she comes to visit me and her younger siblings in the summer and Christmas holidays and that we split the costs 50/50.

We kept that up for the two years pre-Covid with either myself or my ex-wife chaperoning, then obviously during the lockdowns I missed out. Now travel has resumed and she came in the summers of 2021-2023 but didn’t come either Christmas because my ex said she couldn’t afford it. Until this year I had a little more disposable income/savings and we fell into a bad pattern where I would pay for the flights up front and my ex paid me back over time (sometimes taking 6 months plus). Now I can no longer afford to do that. Add on top of that the cost of flights going from just under £2k to now £3.5k and the general cost of living it’s become unaffordable for either of us to fly her out here twice a year.

DD is 12 and now very used to airports and flying. I’ve suggested that DD could fly as an unaccompanied minor as this would almost cut the costs by two thirds (it would remove a return flight on each end of her trip, but add £100-200 unaccompanied minor fees) but when I mention it I get shut down. It would mean either a connecting flight or my ex driving her a couple of hours to the nearest airport with direct flights. But a four hour round trip on each end is very different to 48h of flying back and forth and two days annual leave on each end to travel and recover, and would save both of us a couple of thousand pounds a year.

Ex wife is terrified of flying, and very overprotective so I think this is playing in here. But I’m now only getting to see DD for a few weeks a year as there’s always some reason why she can’t come for the whole summer and that’s neither what we agreed or good for maintaining my relationship with DD.

Tldr/ AIBU to think that 12yo DD who is an experienced flyer could fly USA-UK as an unaccompanied minor with a paid airline chaperone?

Yep I know, but they were still being mentioned after you posted so I was just trying to apply a further hint...didn't mean to offend.

Honestly no offence at all. I nearly reposted for the same reason as it was still being mentioned.

This. My very independent, very secure, very happy 12 yo, who has taken loads of flights, when asked about flying unaccompanied to see GPs, balked completely. She's seen other children on flights doing it, she doesn't want a bar of it.

The child's feelings are important.

but I have three young children here two of whom are at school so we’re tied to school holidays, which don’t have a very good overlap. I also have a job which can’t be done abroad so I’m limited by annual leave. I think at some point in the future we will try to have a family holiday in the US to spend time with her there but that’s not practical or affordable right now.

That's a lot of choices you have made there. You've chosen to have three further children, chosen to do a job that isn't flexible. Someone chose to be in different countries, was that you too? I don't doubt you want to see your DD. It does seem like you've made choices that have made that difficult and want her and her other mum to do things to facilitate when your choices haven't.

I'm probably biased because my whole family is scattered everywhere and some people have made similar choices which I frankly find baffling.

@overwroughtmummy

It is quite possible that I am projecting my own experiences when responding to you. My DS is in a similar position although he is a few years older and has no problem flying on his own. He doesn't like going to see his dad abroad for any longer periods of time because to him it's not home and he doesn't have a whole lot to do there. Plus his dad is now in a new relationship and he doesn't like feeling like the odd one out when he's there.

For me it was your original post that stood out as it only mentions what you and your ex wants to do and nothing about how your DD feels. That in combination with her changing from every Christmas and the whole summer to every other Christmas (and then no Christmas) to just a portion of the summer lead me to think that perhaps she is trying to phase the visits out but she is scared to tell you. Your latest update though makes it all sound a bit more positive and perhaps I was wrong in my thinking. It might just need to be a bit more balanced where all the pressure to have a relationship with you isn't resting just on her. I still think it would be nice if you went to see her too, even if it's just you on your own. I am guessing she doesn't get much or any alone time with you given you have three small children as well.

@overwroughtmummy I was 7/8 when I flew to San Diego from London a couple of times on my own (there and back). I was absolutely fine, had lots of support from the cabin crew too

@19lottie82 , airlines since covid have raised the ages internationally - some 14 / 16. I have family who travel a lot for their career and the stories of what they see makes my hair stand on end. Children left in rather loose care of an unknown adult in a situation where changes can happen through out the process - what possibly could go wrong - as a parent no I would not be allowing my child to travel internationally on their own. Just because we did things in the past does not mean they were good choices - back when I was a child there was no child car seats!

Here is just one article depicting an incident - there are many on google. Mom says airline allowed unaccompanied daughter to exit plane alone after flight - Good Morning America

Whether they can fly alone depends on the airline I think. Many allow them without a chaperone once they're over 12.

Son stayed on with friends in France for a week or so after a family holiday, probably at 14. ISTR FlyBe were OK with it but not Ryanair. He flew to Southampton with FlyBe and we picked him up there. Birmingham would have been easier but we're only around 100-120mins drive from S'oton.

Cathay Pacific and Air New Zealand operate exactly the same as before Covid when it comes to minor accompanied travel, so not sure why you are making sweeping statements about ‘airlines’ when the first two that came to mind haven’t altered their service at all.

Plus one news article from a year ago means that one airline cocked up once. It’s hardly indicative of a trend. Plus I thought this was interesting: “The family had not gone over specifics with Kimber about what to expect in the unaccompanied travel process, or detailed safety instructions on flying alone.” It’s not a babysitting service, have a proper conversation with your kid.

I know kids who have travelled alone on military flights with a boatload of squaddies and have somehow managed to stay alive…

I realise I've missed a very important bit here... I was resigned to waiting until she was a bit older and forgoing Christmas, even though that's not what either of us want as I know how my ex feels about DD flying as an unaccompanied minor. However, when we were travelling to the UK this time we passed the UM lounge and I asked her how she'd feel about flying without us if she had a chaperone and she was very open to the idea especially if it means she could come at Christmas.

So, at least in theory she's happy to try, and of course if she did it once and hated it I'd not suggest it again until she were older. We also saw some kids younger than her travelling with a chaperone when travelling back that I pointed out to her, and she was very interested in how it works.

The resistance to her flying UM is from her other mum rather than from DD. I flew as an UM several times to visit my grand mother around DD's age so maybe I'm more comfortable with it because I have the experience of doing it, whereas I'm not sure my ex flew anywhere at all until she was much older.

USA to UK is a route many UMs do regularly. If your ex won’t see sense then take legal action in the States to force her to allow it.

DNiece flew vast distances as a UMbfrom age 10 and had a great time doing it.

I agree it is all about how your DD truly feels. Her other mum’s fear of flying should not be allowed to affect this decision. But how can you be sure DD is being frank with you ?

It would make me very nervous.

Years ago I was flying constantly and was sat next to unaccompanied minors a surprising number of times. So many times that I don’t think it can be a coincidence. I think I must have had look that made the gate agent think I would be safe. I did become a de facto babysitter in many cases because I would never ignore a stressed child. With online check in and seat selection, I don’t know that they can do that anymore.

I’ve also heard far too many stories of women being assaulted on planes to be comfortable with letting my own dd fly solo.

Lots of 12 year olds could. Some couldn't.

I think it's not about whether she could but about whether she should. And I think that's a no. 12 year olds shouldn't be flying across the world alone because their parents chose to live so far apart.

I think it's a sensible solution provided you can get her Mum to drive her to the airport for direct flight. Could you offer to pay her fuel to get her to do this.

I've flown and seen unaccompanied children being given fruit juices and snacks.

Hi there, I have a severe visual impairment, but flew from Florida to England as unaccompanied minor from the age of nine onward. I really enjoyed the experience, because of my visual impairment I had someone just for me, but it was great fun and I still remember the little kids packages and kids meals they gave me. Because I flew so often between the two, Virgin Atlantic in Orlando became very familiar with me and they even gave me a present on my 16th birthday.

But @PeppermintMandy this is probably WHY you didn't feel safe: you weren't properly looked after. That's not how it would be nowadays, at all.

Also, I can imagine that your distress at having your life uprooted was horrible, but the OP's not asking whether/ how much her child should travel - only about the need to be accompanied.

I'm sorry for the horrible experiences you had as a child, but the OP's child isn't in the same situation at all.

My sibling emigrated, and her child flew unaccompanied to our home country, aged under ten, several times. They really enjoyed it - although TBF it wasn't as far as USA - UK.

Parents shouldn't be living thousands of miles away from their children because they didn't have a choice, but that's where we are.

At this point it's a case of what is making the best of a bad situation for our child. Is that DD flying solo and seeing her UK family twice a year, or one of us flying her out and back at both ends and her only seeing the UK family once a year? Only my daughter can really make that decision.

My question was only whether it was unreasonable to suggest to my ex that DD flying as an UM would be a solution for making the twice yearly (or twice every other year) visits financially viable.

I've done enough digging to know that a court would probably force it if I wanted to go that route, but I really don't think that antagonising my ex and creating that sort of upset would be in anyone's interest and I'd really like to come to an amicable agreement. I really just wanted to know if I was crazy to even suggest it TBH. If my ex remains adamant I'm not going to push it, even if I'm heartbroken at only getting to see DD once a year.

I would absolutely offer to pay. We've always split everything 50/50 for the travel expenses including hotels/hire cars etc.

I don’t really get into the specifics but you’re making a lot of unfair and untrue assumptions here.

I don’t know of any jobs in my field that would allow for flexibility to work from anywhere and even if I could do my work in the USA I’m sure there’d be tax implications for doing so. Right now I have no choice but to live where I live as I wouldn’t have any route to getting a visa to move back to the USA.

Transnational relationships are complicated in ways you can’t even imagine until you’re in one and messy in ways that aren’t worth contemplating when they fall apart especially when there are kids involved. I’m trying to make the best of a messy situation and that’s all I can do.