To join a choir despite being (almost) tone deaf?

[badchoir]

I've always absolutely loved singing, especially in a group like we would at school in assemblies. I find it so fun and it gives me goosebumps being part of a group singing. The problem is that I'm a horrible singer and cannot hold a tune at all - to the point that I'm embarrassed to join in on happy birthday too loudly.

I am not literally completely tone deaf as I can hear that one note is much higher or lower pitch than another, but I do seem to struggle much more than the average person.

I obviously wouldn't join a choir that requires auditions or that takes it very seriously. I was thinking of a large choir like 'Rock Choir' that says everyone is welcome regardless of musical ability.

I am hoping that as long as I don't sing loudly, I would not affect the overall sound?

I have this fear though, that I will be laughed at or asked to leave for being so bad at it. 🙀I've often wondered about singing lessons, just to see if I can get to a point where I don't sound like a strangled cat, but I have always been way too embarrassed. I know people say singing tutors have seen it all but I'm not sure how true that is. I assume most students they teach are already semi-competent and want to improve. I think, unfortunately, a lot of people like me who have always been told they sound awful just avoid singing.

Do choirs help you to sing better? Is there a chance I would improve at singing a little by being part of it? Do they actually teach you how to sing there and give you strategies/exercises to practice, or do you just learn the songs and sing them? Has anyone had any similar experiences with joining a choir?

My daughter loves singing but she sounded tuneless, and we joined her into the school choir because all her friends were doing it and her singing improved hugely! People think singing is a gift you either have or you don’t, but we’ve seen the opposite - huge improvement from trying to sign in tune regularly and being coached.

give it a go!

You wouldn't get turned away from that jogging club if you couldn't move quickly, does the same idea not apply?

A choir like Rock Choir would be fine. There are no auditions or solo singing, and plenty of time to practice at home with downloads. And yes, singing regularly does improve singing in tine.

Most singing teachers will say that the odds of you being actually 'tone deaf' are vanishingly rare - the vast majority of people, given the right coaching and support, will be able to learn how to carry a tune (although they won't necessarily turn into Maria Callas overnight).

Give it a go! Choral / group singing or music making is a huge amount of fun and very good for your mental health and lungs.

Absolutely go for it, and that includes the lessons.

The overall 'sound' of your voice is down to luck, but the control of it comes from work. It's a set of muscles, like any other. Some people are born naturally more able to control theirs, or with a set up that generates a naturally pleasing/wide/powerful range, just like some people are naturally better at jumping, running or catching a ball, but everyone's can be improved. Very few people can't learn to be 'in tune'. If you can hear when you're right or wrong, that's the hardest bit.

I 100% agree with you about harmonies from groups btw. It's fantastic to be a part of.

I think I’d have a couple of singing lessons if you can first, so you feel more comfortable.

I’ve been told that unless you are totally tone deaf you can learn to hold a tune, so I am sure as a PP says a choir will make you better.

I think you would enjoy being part of a choir far more if you knew your singing was OK than worried about its being awful.

I'm totally tone deaf and cannot keep time with anything, so I wouldn't consider this, but if you would enjoy it as a hobby/pastime then singing lessons would probably help. Apparently a small percentage of the population are amusical and cannot improve, but everyone else has the potential so why not give lessons a try?

If you live in London South London Choir

OP I am exactly the same, I remember there was an article on bbc a few years ago about choirs that had been set up for this very reason - people who can't sing but who love to! It's called the Tuneless choir (there isn't one near me so I'm not a member) but maybe there's one near you?

https://www.tunelesschoir.com/

The chances of you actually being tone deaf are miniscule (hardly anyone actually is), so that means you are likely to be able to learn how to sing in tune.

I sing in a totally open-access community choir. No auditions, no singling anyone out. But also completely taught by ear and all singing without musical accompaniment. It does mean that when we're singing our parts individually (one section at a time), you can hear that there are some people who just aren't in tune, and this does put people off. I try to mitigate by where I stand (so I can't hear very well), but it can be frustrating when it affects the overall sound. HOWEVER, what I signed up for is open access singing, and the joy of being part of the group outweighs the pitfalls. If I wanted perfection, I would go elsewhere, and probably get less enjoyment from it.

I would encourage you to join a choir - it's such a joyous thing to do. BUT - I would also see if you can have a couple of sessions with a singing teacher first, to train your ear more than your voice. I would imagine you would gain a lot from that very quickly, and your enjoyment of collective singing would then be much greater.

I'm a competent singer who sings in inclusive choirs (mainly small parish ones, where you really CAN hear the people who are off pitch) as well as more demanding ones, and I say go for it. I'm a big fan of inclusive singing. Singing with others does improve your ear and ability to carry a tune - it's fantastic what some of my choirs achieve with patient rehearsal. Do get singing lessons too! Good singing teachers know how intimately connected our voice is to our sense of self and will be nothing but encouraging.

I'd def recommend the Rock Choir for the non judgemental aspect and the 100% fun and feeling of joy you get when singing all the favourites

I used to run a choir at a junior school and never held any auditions. I remember several children who were real croakers but put in amongst a bunch of kids who could sing in tune really helped them to improve their pitch. It is more than possible with a little training to develop an ear for pitch.

Go for it! I’m a rock choir member and honestly it won’t matter, just go along and enjoy yourself. You can book yourself a free taster when we get back in September or there are some summer workshops coming up that are open to both members and non members.

in the workshops we will be learning to sing ‘I knew you were waiting’ (the duet sung by George Michael and Aretha Franklin

come along and give it a try, you won’t regret it

https://rockchoir.com/what-to-expect/#:~:text=The%20Rock%20Choir%20ethos%20and,what%20their%20musical%20experience%20is.

Definitely Rock Choir! My friend openly admits her voice is terrible but loves it and there are so many singing you can’t get her wailing 🤣 Plus you get to sing some fab modern tunes x

Big choir probably not a problem, but please don't join a small choir. I sing in a church choir (only about 8 of us) and a recent joiner is awful. In a choir of that size a poor singer can be very destructive, very noticeable (and drive other choir members mad)

On a random note, there are phone and ipad apps for tone deaf training (not scientifically of course but just practising recognising and differentiating notes)

Also singing in tune and having a nice voice are two different things.

I sing in a very good choir, but I don't have a particularly nice voice; I don't ever sing solos; I can't really sing more than a few bars without breathing etc. But I can keep reasonably well in tune and learn my notes. Some people have much much nicer sounding voices, but don't always get the right notes or aren't in tune. Some are both excellent at listening and excellent at producing.

So you might not be bad at the actual singing bit, just at the tuning side ,and that can definitely be improved. Can you match pitch? You said that you can tell if one pitch was higher or lower than another, which is the first step. Can you tell if a note you are singing is higher or lower than one that you hear on a piano or a recording or a keyboard of some sort (you can get them on a tablet like Garage Band on an ipad)? Then see if you can match that note. If you can get a friend to listen and tell you if you're right, that will help, but if you don't want to ,there are tuning apps you can get (usually for tuning instruments) that tell you what note you are singing. I worked with a friend on this for a little while, and it was amazing how quickly she improved once she had feedback. At first she wasn't even close to the note, but not very long later, she could match it. And once you can learn to do that, you can match singing intervals, etc, and then learn songs by hearing recordings. you can learn them slowly - all kinds of apps and recordings to slow stuff down so you can really hear what the notes are.

You don't have to read music, though after a while, you might find that the basics help, as then you can at least follow along - seeing where it goes up or down, and possibly how the words match the rhythm.

Starting with folk songs, simple children's tunes etc can be good as they are usually quite straightforward intervals and predictable patterns and keys.

Absolutely join the choir! You will be able to ‘tune in’ to the better singers and follow their lead and you will definitely improve.

The point is to enjoy yourself in any non-auditioned choir. If anyone was worried about wanting the choir sounding perfect then they would hold auditions.

Thank you everyone! This is really encouraging and so I am going to go for it but I will make sure it's a large choir where I am not throwing the overall sound off. I will also look into getting some apps like some of you mentioned.