That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

I thought you said husband did eldest child's activities run around? So why is it upsetting you?

I had a working mum which meant me and my siblings were with a childminder when young. Over the age of 10 coming home to an empty house / being with one sister in the school holidays on our own and then when 12+ looking after younger siblings.
Its one of the reasons I wanted to be there for my kids every day before and after school. I just wanted my mum on those occasions.

We all bring our own experiences. I remember very fondly having the house to myself after school and in the holidays. I really liked the peace and quiet and independence

I also have 3 kids similarly spaced to yours.. you are in the trenches… this is the absolute hardest bit of it and it absolutely will get better with time. Mine are now 3, 7 and 10 and it’s so so much more manageable.

@PurpleWisteria1 If you work full time you will be spending almost half the child’s waking time away from them (unless you work nights- but then when do you sleep?)
So it’s fair to say someone else is also responsible for raising them, whether you like it or not, it’s a fact.

If your children go to school they spend over half their waking time away from you. So it’s fair to say someone else is also responsible for raising them, whether you like it or not, it’s a fact.

@Wenfy

They can cash in a child free day when they both do 45 hours a week and do morning clubs and after school clubs send holiday clubs?

When do they even see their children?

Op i do a job that fits around dc for this reason and even if struggle to keep on top of the things!

I have 1 right now. Most people do get a choice is the point.

I have no idea how 2 parents can work FT. I'd have a nervous breakdown if I had to do that and DH is very good home/child wise.

My kids are older (16 and 11) and I'm still PT. I was a SAHM til they went to school. I just know I'd feel like I wasn't doing anything well if I was working FT. I still couldn't do it now (and nor would I want to)

a message to all of you. It gets better - it really does - youngest is about to start 6th form, oldest has pretty much left home and feeling like you do now seems like such a long time ago.

Don't worry about a bit of mess - teach the kids to clear up after themselves and one day in a couple of years you will look round and realise it's all not as bad as it was - there will still be mess but it wont be so bad and it will generally keep getting better. You will make friends with other parents and share the extra curriculars with them - maybe even socialise together.

One day you will realise that you have brought up useful self sufficient kids and you have time for a life of your own. This time does pass it really does.

Schools do have a part in raising kids though. A school is a huge influence because a child is making sense of themselves and the world in this environment. How much time a child spends in an environment will obviously have an impact, especially in the early years when development is so rapid and susceptible to influence.

Have to be honest, reading all of this is making me even more convinced I made the right choice to be with my children rather than simply 'earning more money'

Trust me. If you drop dead you will be replaced within the week. If you're working FT at the detriment of the needs (emotional) of your children then you're not being a brilliant mum. Yes, your children may be better clothed than mine. Yes, you've got more money. But you don't have more. You have less.

And whether you all like it or not, you are absolutely not raising your kids. You're farming them out. But that makes you all feel guilty so you object to it.

There is such a thing as happy medium. Women need to stop trying to have it all and accept the need to make a choice. Personally if you're choosing a fancy career over being with your baby, maybe you shouldn't have bothered having the baby in the first place.

Not currently working since having my 4th ( not out of choice - redundancy) but I just kept on lowering my standards.

I only wfh once a week. I never lowered my standards at work as if I was working I was always 100% but I lost the will to get promoted and played work safe. I just couldn't handle the stress of moving team or hours, location etc.

At home my standards was low. We did lots of after school clubs and I avoided being home

They are GPs so tend to start work early - 7-8ish usually (they take turns in starting at 7 or 8) - and most schools locally do start breakfast club by 8. Then they’ll stay in school until 4:30 in various clubs before pick up. Then weekends are spent entirely with the kids - biking, walking etc. They are extremely organised

@ladyvivienne There is such a thing as happy medium. Women need to stop trying to have it all and accept the need to make a choice. Personally if you're choosing a fancy career over being with your baby, maybe you shouldn't have bothered having the baby in the first place.

What did your husband say when you pointed that out to him? Presumably he didn’t make the choice to be with his children?

Why do only women need to make that choice? Men have 'fancy careers' as parents all of the time and no one tells them they need to make a choice.

What is an “fancy career” is it anything full time or is it just something with a professional qualification that earns well?
Also does anyone want to live in a world were doctors, surgeons, lawyers, MPs, architects, educators etc don’t have children? That would be such a 1 dimensional society.
What an odd statement. It honestly doesn’t sound like you live in the real world with that comment.

My husband and I work full-time and have two school aged kids. Although we are both busy and I feel like I have a big mental load with all the admin, it generally works fine. Things that make it manageable:

Fortnightly cleaner
I do a wash every morning, put it in the tumble drier at lunch time then put away while the 5 year old is in the bath or getting ready for bed.
I don’t iron
I tidy up from meals and wipe down kitchen straight away
We all keep our stuff tidy daily so everyone has to put things away, make beds, put washing in basket, put shoes away etc
The kids go to after school club every day.
We have arranged their clubs so they are at convenient times and locations, so mostly on a Saturday or later in the evening.
I spend a bit of time doing any admin needed once they are in bed bed
Online shopping

@ladyvivienne that's harsh but I do agree with some elements of the post.

I do feel sometimes we are on a hamster wheel without actually thinking about what we want and what is important.

I definitely want females in all jobs previously dominated by men but taking a few years out or part time doesn't mean anything interesting the grand scheme of a life.

Yes, I loved our childminder. She was an art student and came to our house and made our tea but we could do our own thing, lots of time to read and chill out. We went to her house sometimes for a treat to meet her kittens. And 12+ I learned to cook and made dinner for my parents’ arrival home, so we all ate dinner together proudly made by me and I went off to university with a killer repertoire of cookery skills and independence.

OP. I can see why taking work out of the equation makes the most sense: aside from sleep it’s the single biggest number in the “hours taken up by this” column. Remove work and you suddenly have 40 hours plus commute time to play with to achieve everything else! To gain 40 hours elsewhere you’d need to chop at a little bit of everything: outsource some cleaning, cut an activity, shave a corner here, do less there, and it still won’t add up to 40 hours, it’ll take lots of thinking about (and you’re already doing all the thinking), and might feel unsatisfying – sporty kid unhappy, house still a bit messy, diet very “oven food”, etc.

But! Do you actually need 40 spare hours? Or do you need just a few more spare hours? You’ve said you do the majority of the mental load, so there’s a chunk that could be easily offloaded to your DH. The hard reset suggested early in the thread (before it went off on a tangent) to take some leave and do a ruthless declutter, suddenly there’s more hours in the week because there’s less stuff to move around. Maybe you switch to intensive “learn in a week” swimming lessons and all go for a family swim once a week on the weekend, buying back your day off. Basically work smarter, not harder. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing, SAHM or FT working parent. Your husband really should be taking on some of the thinking: and not in a “I’ll do the shop but tell me what to buy” way, in a genuine, you know the pantry is continually restocked and the fridge has all the things for dinner, but you’re not involved beyond writing any requests you personally have on the whiteboard.

I've totally stopped ironing. Agree with big de clutter

And whether you all like it or not, you are absolutely not raising your kids. You're farming them out.

Has anybody mentioned day orphanages yet? Although I've always found those way too fancy and prefer to have my offspring raised by wild wolves.

4 days is a lot if you have 3 kids. Some ideas:

Could he do something more or different. It sounds like your kids have a lot on. Can they bus it, or do less?

Do you use holiday clubs so you get your own day off?

Can you afford a babysitter the odd time?

Do your kids tidy up. Easier said than done but could that improve?

Can cooking be simplified think one pot meals.

The message that caring for others is boring and mindless is another way that we devalue the role of carers in our society.

Being a carer is a really important role, one that is vital for our society.

Women are often the carers, and that’s OK. It’s more than OK, women are doing a really valuable and skilled job, as carers.

I am well educated and independent, and have worked hard all of my life in challenging and skilled environments. At first that was in a scientific role, and then when I had a child with significant SN as a carer. Both roles are mentally fulfilling, stimulating, useful and important. And as is often the case, my child would not be getting the quality of care from a nanny, he has had continuity of care to a high level and that could not be bought in.

If my sons grow up to value women enough and the caring role enough to place value on either the father or mother being a SAH parent then that’s a really great thing. Sometimes you really can’t have it all, as there is always a cost.

Women don’t ‘win’ equality by chucking away and demeaning the caring role to ‘join men’. True equality if valuing both caring and earning as important as each other. And not putting down one by saying ‘it would drive me insane with boredom’ as if it’s something ‘lesser’ than a career.

Bizarrely I've just sat down to rethink my whole life as its just not working properly. I recently got sucked into working too many hours (self employed) and as a result house out of control and I am getting stressed, especially if child off school sick!!!

On top of that long Covid and three family deaths in past two months and I have gone splat.

So I have tried to rethink everything!

Just to add that I think it’s much more manageable when they are at school. I worked part-time when mine were preschool age.