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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Hospital discharge care packages

27 replies

Eyeofthetigers · 07/07/2023 23:50

Hi all

just looking for help or experiences
mum had a fall possible hip fractured and has heart failure
hospital says she can’t go home alone
I’m not in a position to help sue to having my dd, my own health and care needs and needing to work
my mum is a hoarder and won’t allow anyone into her home. I have offered to clear this

what will be the care options? She won’t want to go to a care home she’ll never forgive me but equally if I have to care for her I won’t cope longer than a day

OP posts:
MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 07/07/2023 23:51

Talk to the social worker and OT. Be honest about the situation

Teder · 07/07/2023 23:52

Would she consider a temporary care home placement or rehab bed while she gets back on her feet? This might be an option.

You need to ensure the hospital discharge team know you cannot support her at all.

MeinKraft · 07/07/2023 23:54

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 07/07/2023 23:51

Talk to the social worker and OT. Be honest about the situation

This is the way forward. They'll probably push you to clear the house so that carers can come in - maybe with their support you can get that far.

Blossomtoes · 07/07/2023 23:57

Talk to the social worker and push back. Hard. Her home is unsuitable. There is no family support. Get her into a care home on a temporary basis. Any suggestion of her going home, just say no. You’re going to have to play hardball and it won’t be easy but it’s the only option.

Elleherd · 07/07/2023 23:58

Look into a stepdown hospital placement.

Blossomtoes · 07/07/2023 23:59

Elleherd · 07/07/2023 23:58

Look into a stepdown hospital placement.

There are no longer any of those round here. They were fabulous and their demise is a huge part of the reason we have bedblocking.

Elleherd · 08/07/2023 00:02

Blossomtoes Really sorry to hear that, they seem to be popping up in a lot of places, sounds like it may be a post code lottery.

olympicsrock · 08/07/2023 00:08

It depends on whether or not she needs care overnight and whether the home is fit for her to live in.

If she needs overnight care whe will need to go into a home. If she can manage overnight, carers will assess if her home is suitable and will arrange carers 1-4 times daily. They will come out to the house . Be honest with them.

Pleatherandlace · 08/07/2023 00:10

If your mum has capacity around discharge destination then there is nothing you can do. It's her choice to go home and not accept care. Care agencies may also not send their staff into unsafe properties which they might consider your mums to be if it is seriously cluttered

VanGoghsDog · 08/07/2023 00:13

Blossomtoes · 07/07/2023 23:59

There are no longer any of those round here. They were fabulous and their demise is a huge part of the reason we have bedblocking.

Show quote history

Yes there are, my mum has just came out of one she was in for three ish weeks.

OP - if your mother has mental capacity it's entirely up to her how she is cared for, so you, the social worker and the OT all need to talk to her and take her preferences into account. Theoretically, she could refuse it all and just go home. People do.

Believe me, I know how worrying it is. But I found it best to ask to be informed rather than to be included in the decision making. My mum is still coming up with barmy schemes, like having a lift put in her 18th century house (what makes her think she can afford it, apart from anything else!) but I'm just leaving her to it, it's her life, her home, her choice.

Arguably, someone making bonkers decisions might be said not to have capacity. But it doesn't work like that.

HeddaGarbled · 08/07/2023 00:13

The “heart failure”, presumably, is, or is going to be, medically managed.

The possible hip fracture (why don’t they know?) is what necessitates the care. This will normally be temporary until her hip heals and they’ll take it away as soon as they can get away with it.

She might get offered some support with the falls risk as well e.g. falls clinic, occupational therapist visit to the home.

All this is routine. We’ve had it for both parents.

The biggie here is the hoarding. This is a mental health difficulty. It may be that she can’t remain at home because of her mental health rather than because of her heart condition or physical frailty.

You must tell whoever you are talking to at the hospital about this. It changes what would be a routine discharge with care package into something much more serious.

Original poster
Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 00:15

MeinKraft · 07/07/2023 23:54

This is the way forward. They'll probably push you to clear the house so that carers can come in - maybe with their support you can get that far.

Show quote history

Iv asked her for her key so I can go and do that but she won’t let me

OP posts:
Original poster
Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 00:16

Pleatherandlace · 08/07/2023 00:10

If your mum has capacity around discharge destination then there is nothing you can do. It's her choice to go home and not accept care. Care agencies may also not send their staff into unsafe properties which they might consider your mums to be if it is seriously cluttered

She won’t allow them in
she won’t let me clear it

she would really really struggle with a care home

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 08/07/2023 00:17

The words you need to use are unsafe discharge. She can’t be safely discharged home and the discharge team must be made aware of that.

And you might have step down hospitals where you live @VanGoghsDog but where I live they’ve all been closed. I was working in the local NHS when they did it and the discharge teams were tearing their hair out at the lunacy of it.

NowItsSpring · 08/07/2023 00:26

An older friend featured her hip in a fall and after 2 weeks in hospital has moved to a rehabilitation unit for several weeks as not fit for discharge and lives alone. Has her own room with ensuite and daily physio which she certainly wouldn't be getting if discharged home.

Original poster
Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 00:28

NowItsSpring · 08/07/2023 00:26

An older friend featured her hip in a fall and after 2 weeks in hospital has moved to a rehabilitation unit for several weeks as not fit for discharge and lives alone. Has her own room with ensuite and daily physio which she certainly wouldn't be getting if discharged home.

I’d love her to have that and I could do her home whilst she was in there

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 08/07/2023 00:33

Blossomtoes · 08/07/2023 00:17

The words you need to use are unsafe discharge. She can’t be safely discharged home and the discharge team must be made aware of that.

And you might have step down hospitals where you live @VanGoghsDog but where I live they’ve all been closed. I was working in the local NHS when they did it and the discharge teams were tearing their hair out at the lunacy of it.

Well, oddly, I don't know where you live. I also don't know if we have them where I live because I've never needed to know. But they have several where my mum lives.

I'm not sure why telling someone that something doesn't exist where you live, which might not be where the OP lives, is of any use at all.

VanGoghsDog · 08/07/2023 00:37

Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 00:16

She won’t allow them in
she won’t let me clear it

she would really really struggle with a care home

Show quote history

You can't force her to do any of those things though.

My mum has refused to sleep downstairs, refused one of those higher seated chairs, refused hand rails to be installed in some places (she's allowed some) amongst other things. It's her choice. The likelihood of her falling when she is left alone after the six weeks of carers (she is refusing to pay for her own carers after that because apparently they are useless) is very high I'm afraid.

She has agreed to a fall alarm.

Original poster
Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 00:57

VanGoghsDog · 08/07/2023 00:37

You can't force her to do any of those things though.

My mum has refused to sleep downstairs, refused one of those higher seated chairs, refused hand rails to be installed in some places (she's allowed some) amongst other things. It's her choice. The likelihood of her falling when she is left alone after the six weeks of carers (she is refusing to pay for her own carers after that because apparently they are useless) is very high I'm afraid.

She has agreed to a fall alarm.

Show quote history

I feel for you

OP posts:
Toddlerteaplease · 08/07/2023 01:00

My friend was discharged to a nursing home. There was no way he. Could go home and be safe. And his flat was in such a bad state that it was completely cleared.

Toddlerteaplease · 08/07/2023 01:00

Be very firm that you can't be a carer, or they'll get you to do it.

Original poster
Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 01:04

Toddlerteaplease · 08/07/2023 01:00

My friend was discharged to a nursing home. There was no way he. Could go home and be safe. And his flat was in such a bad state that it was completely cleared.

That’s good but it depends if she lets anyone I’m terrified she’ll refuse and they will discharge her

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 08/07/2023 01:08

Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 01:04

That’s good but it depends if she lets anyone I’m terrified she’ll refuse and they will discharge her

Show quote history

That’s why you need to make it crystal clear that it’s an unsafe discharge if they attempt to send her home.

Original poster
Eyeofthetigers · 08/07/2023 01:12

But if she declines all help they can’t enforce it can they
I’m sure she will be deemed to have capacity

OP posts:
WiseUpJanetWeiss · 08/07/2023 01:23

The question is, what is your mum expecting you to do, and what has she told the hospital you will do?

You need to be very clear with everyone that you are not, and cannot become, her carer.

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