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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that an unrefridgerated ham sandwich is not ok to eat after 30 hours?

74 replies

SmartyPlants · 03/07/2023 07:53

DS (14) doing D of E expedition. Needs lunch for 2 days. The team are planning to eat left over pizza on the first day and a sandwich on the second day (after camping overnight).

DS with his Dad this weekend ahead of the D of E and has chosen a ham sandwich for the second day. I've suggested that ham out of the fridge for 30 hours won't be safe to eat, but ExH has said it was DSs choice. DS is 14 with SEN and no knowledge of food poisoning, so I suggested to ExH that there might be a better choice he could be guided towards. I've had no reply.

AIBU that this is not sensible? ExH seems to think I am overreacting.

OP posts:
Harebrain · 03/07/2023 08:53

We froze my daughters sandwiches for day 2, along with a bottle of water. It worked well.

watcherintherye · 03/07/2023 08:54

Also agree with several pp’s suggestion of tuna. You can get different varieties of Light Lunches I think they’re called, in the tuna aisle!

MustardCress · 03/07/2023 08:56

ISeeMisledPeople · 03/07/2023 08:31

Genuine question - why would the curing process for salami make it ok, but the curing process for ham means it's not?

Show quote history

The pepperami is cured then sealed. The ham is cured, cooked then sliced and packed, then opened, handled and put in a sandwich.

The extra slicing and sandwich making expose the ham to temperature changes and to airborne contaminants, oxygen etc so greater risk compared to the pepperami.

Similar to minced beef/ beef burger being a risk to eat undercooked whereas a steak, cooked on the outside but rare on the inside is not so great a risk.

I also think the pepperami is likely have a stronger cure than the ham, plus is semi dried which helps.

caringcarer · 03/07/2023 08:56

Lunch a banana, couple of pepperoni sticks, 2x baby bel, large brioch roll/wholemeal roll. Apple for snack when walking. My son did DofE 2 years ago and took 8 pepperoni sticks and 8 baby bel. He actually gave some to a child with a (dodgy) chicken sandwich as he couldn't eat it.

ISeeMisledPeople · 03/07/2023 09:03

MustardCress · 03/07/2023 08:56

The pepperami is cured then sealed. The ham is cured, cooked then sliced and packed, then opened, handled and put in a sandwich.

The extra slicing and sandwich making expose the ham to temperature changes and to airborne contaminants, oxygen etc so greater risk compared to the pepperami.

Similar to minced beef/ beef burger being a risk to eat undercooked whereas a steak, cooked on the outside but rare on the inside is not so great a risk.

I also think the pepperami is likely have a stronger cure than the ham, plus is semi dried which helps.

Show quote history

I wasn't asking about pepperami. I was asking about salami.

GlomOfNit · 03/07/2023 09:03

We went through this last year with DS1. TBH there's no reason why a 'packed lunch' has to look like the sort of packed lunch that your child would usually take to school, and sandwiches will get crushed beyond recogniton anyway. There are loads of safe things you could take unrefrigerated - sealed cheeses like Babybel, pepperami-type things and biltong/jerky, protein bars, etc, and then things like bread rolls (we sent him with a bag of brioche rolls for breakfast and lunch, they're nice even when crushed and they are fatty enough to stay quite fresh), hard fruit, carrot sticks, dried fruit etc.

I found one of the most frustrating parts of prepping for DofE was explaining to DS1 and then, via him, his friends, what you couldn't take on expedition because we didn't want them to spend the second day vomiting ... Grin

The one thing they all agreed on eating for their tea was filled pasta. We trialed some, decided the totally dried cheapo sort from Aldi/Lidl were minging and took quite a bit of boiling time/fuel, so bought semi-dried (from chiller cabinet) and FROZE them, because temps were forecast low 20's, and they defrosted in their rucksacks during the day and also kept other food cool. TBH though I'm prone to micromanaging things and I knew part of the challenge was finding out what works and what doesn't, I wasn't prepared to be so hands-off that DS was going to get food poisoning because his friends were being daft (or friends' parents were being ...) so I made sure he was able to argue for food safety to his friends when they discussed what to bring. This didn't stop some doink bringing huge chunky sausages (not talking chipolatas here) which must have kept cool enough as nobody was being sick, but were so thick they wouldn't cook on their meagre amount of fuel, so they ended up being thrown away for the most part...

Bigboysmademedoit I would NOT take falafels out on a hot day and expect to eat them the next!! Chickpeas can go really nasty in the heat.

Grimchmas · 03/07/2023 09:05

People aren't understanding the OP, she didn't ask for ideas for alternatives, she was checking that she wasn't being unreasonable that a ham sandwich + 30 hours unrefrigerated would be a bad idea. Its what her ex has let her 14 year old SEN son take, so I don't suppose the alternatives are very useful right now.

To the person asking about the food safety difference between cured pepperami and cured ham, generally bacteria needs certain things to survive and reproduce: food (the meat), warmth and moisture, with some that need air, too. Pepperami is drier and saltier, which makes it very difficult for bacteria to survive because there's not enough moisture. It's still in it's packet until eaten, keeping air out of the equasion. Ham has much more moisture (unless we're talking Parma ham, which I assume we aren't) and although it may have been brined or smoked it has generally been cooked not cured. It's been exposed to air in the process of making the sandwich.

100% I would take my chance with a cured meat over a cooked moist one in this situation.

TiaraBoo · 03/07/2023 09:07

I said the same! I sent DS with bread rolls and pepperami.
FYI he and camp mates all had wayfarer food for dinner and he reported beck the tent smelt eggy 😂

Grimchmas · 03/07/2023 09:11

@ISeeMisledPeople

Salami, chorizo, pepperami, all cured in more or less the same way. All generally safe at room temperature because of the high salt/low moisture content. They were invented to be safe at room temperature.

Cooked ham - too much moisture to be safe at room temp.

TheLovleyChebbyMcGee · 03/07/2023 09:12

Microbiologist here, I definitely wouldn't eat that!

What about peanut butter, jam, pepparami, babybel, or something sealed, like those no drain tuna things. Or the tuna 'salads'.

Even cold packs and insulated bags after 30 hours won't be great, plus extra stuff to carry. Remember you can freeze sandwiches too.

QuestionableMouse · 03/07/2023 09:15

I was violently ill after eating a ham and cheese sandwich that had been in a warm car for a few hours - got stuck behind a crash and needed something to eat to take my medication. I really regretted it the next day 🤢

DominoRules · 03/07/2023 09:16

Absolutely I wouldn’t want my DS eating that, last thing you want is a bout of food poisoning…..

When mine did it recently they all ate loads of protein on day 1 and day 2 just ate cereal bars/bananas and had a big lunch when he got home.

Kaiserchief · 03/07/2023 09:18

I’ll eat pretty much anything but even I wouldn’t touch that.

ISeeMisledPeople · 03/07/2023 09:20

Grimchmas · 03/07/2023 09:11

@ISeeMisledPeople

Salami, chorizo, pepperami, all cured in more or less the same way. All generally safe at room temperature because of the high salt/low moisture content. They were invented to be safe at room temperature.

Cooked ham - too much moisture to be safe at room temp.

I would agree that a whole salami or chorizo would be fine.

I'm not sure that they would be taking a whole one though - and the chill guidelines for sliced salami are basically the same as for ham..

Justplainsadmad · 03/07/2023 09:58

@Kaiserchief I had the meatloaf song in my head when I read that 🤣

IroningThrone · 03/07/2023 09:59

Get a couple of yFood bottles and send him with those.

jigglytip · 03/07/2023 10:11

I always make a ham sandwich the day before for my holiday flight, it goes in the fridge and then in my bag just before I leave the house, and then I eat it for lunch maybe around 9 hours later, so a good 24 hours since it was made and its fine, don't know what all the fuss is about😄

BillyNoM8s · 03/07/2023 11:04

jigglytip · 03/07/2023 10:11

I always make a ham sandwich the day before for my holiday flight, it goes in the fridge and then in my bag just before I leave the house, and then I eat it for lunch maybe around 9 hours later, so a good 24 hours since it was made and its fine, don't know what all the fuss is about😄

This is an unrefrigerated ham sandwich, 30 hours after making. That's been hiking in a teen's rucksack in warm weather...

He could get violently ill. I doubt he wants to be violently ill with communal camp facilities, while he's sharing a tent...

Blarn · 03/07/2023 11:11

https://images.app.goo.gl/csJWpjkpJkYsbzi56

Something like one of these pots. No need to heat or refrigerate.

https://images.app.goo.gl/csJWpjkpJkYsbzi56

Blarn · 03/07/2023 11:12

Blarn · 03/07/2023 11:11

https://images.app.goo.gl/csJWpjkpJkYsbzi56

Something like one of these pots. No need to heat or refrigerate.

Its a John West tuna salad pot.

Willmafrockfit · 03/07/2023 11:13

miniature tin of beans

murasaki · 03/07/2023 11:21

I'm.sure when I did mine mumble years ago, I lived off pot noodles and kendal mint cake.

Parental recollections may vary....

Grimchmas · 03/07/2023 11:23

@ISeeMisledPeople I know, and I've been pondering what to reply when you rightly point that out! I think it's to do with the surface area that bacteria could grow on, food safety regs in the UK/Europe, and our culture generally not really understanding the difference in the two products. It "feels" wrong to the British to have meat unrefrigerated!

I also think time is a factor. I wouldn't eat sliced salami that had been opened and left for a week, but I would eat it if it had been left for 24 hours.

EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 03/07/2023 11:39

You can get canned ham, though I'd definitely try before hand if his SEN involves sensory issues with taste or textures or limited safe foods.

FloralVelvet · 03/07/2023 11:49

There is a mattesons smoked sausage that doesn’t have to be refrigerated, but you have to be careful , that and microwaved rice ( fried ) are a great DOE camping evening meal. But sandwiches? jarred spread just opened, sandwich spread, or hard cheese, ready to eat Tuna out of a tin are safest bets.