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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the state of the NHS is depressing

42 replies

ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 11:03

Currently in A&E with dp, hes vomiting and cant keep anything down, getting more and more dehydrated as we wait, but apparently they cant even give a bag of fluid until hes seen a doctor, which could be around 9 hours wait...

Its been ongoing for a while now, he was in on Friday with the same thing, and although he got seen and got fluids faster, the ward had no pillows, the nurses were all apologising for it, but said there werent enough in the hospital.

The staff are all lovely and being as helpful as they can, but it just shows how under funded it all is..

OP posts:
BiscuitsandPuffin · 02/07/2023 11:25

YANBU about the state of things.

I may be wrong but I've read that it's not actually underfunded, it's critically mismanaged. Add to that the poor management of staff (including poor pay and conditions) that's led to all the strikes and people leaving in droves.

I feel like it would be an easy win for Labour to build a platform on "health, health, health" for the next election (or the last, or the one before that) and the fact they're not seems to show they're happy for the Conservatives to privatise large parts of the NHS and let it all go down the toilet while Labour sit on the sidelines and halfheartedly say "we disagree" but actually do nothing concrete to show they genuinely would sort it out.

SittingOnTheChair · 02/07/2023 11:37

I had a stroke 7 weeks ago. Was told it was an hours wait for the ambulance.

FixTheBone · 02/07/2023 11:39

It's underfunded.

Read the recent kings fund report... We get more healthcare per pound than almost any comparable country.

SquirrelSoShiny · 02/07/2023 11:43

It is underfunded and poorly managed plus the lack of social care is breaking the health service.

Swrigh1234 · 02/07/2023 11:44

It’s not underfunded. It’s a money pit. No amount of money would ever be enough for this institution. We spend £200bn which is over 11% of GDP on healthcare in this country, in line with the EU.

It is badly managed, with massive waste and total incompetence from top down. Think about who is running our health service. A politician propped up by more civil servants.

Original poster
ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 11:46

Its just insane that they seem happy enough to let him get worse and worse, and then when they finally see him they have a more severe situation to deal with, for the sake of a bag of fluid. Its not like hes asking for morphine.

He already has the canula in his arm, it would be so easy to do, but theres only one nurse covering this area of a and e, with about 25 patients, and ive seen one consulatant wall past a couple of times. Lots of other staff taking obs etc, but no one that can give a bag of fluid apparently.

Its just such a messed up situation and i dont know where they can go from here tbh

OP posts:
Anothernewnamechanges · 02/07/2023 11:48

It's not the funding that's the issue it's issues with management and issues with user expectation without any expectation they'll take responsibility for their own issues. So many people with completely preventable or easily managed conditions absolve themselves of responsibility because it's easier to pop a pill than do the hard work and adjust their lifestyle. Medication and medical care is just too readily available for minor-moderate needs.

FixTheBone · 02/07/2023 11:50

That's the point....

They're not running it top down... The first thing Hunt did as SOS was get the health and social care act through, which removed the SOS from personal repsonsibility for care outcomes...

We have the fewest doctors, nurses, scanners and beds per person of almost anywhere in Europe, and we also pay them significantly less. That CANNOT be fixed with ideas. It needs investment in staff and infrastructure.

I'm a surgeon that does one operating list per month because there's nowhere for me to operate. That's how badly under invested we are.

Anothernewnamechanges · 02/07/2023 11:57

Staff shortages are a global issue, it's not one unique to the UK. Every nation is losing staff to other nations and every nation has seemingly done no forward planning when it comes to their education programmes to population ratios.

Daffodildilys · 02/07/2023 11:57

A bag of fluid? What are his U&Es like? Has he had bloods taken?

Original poster
ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 12:12

Daffodildilys · 02/07/2023 11:57

A bag of fluid? What are his U&Es like? Has he had bloods taken?

I dont know what U&Es is. Hes had bloods taken, just waiting on them coming back.

Hes not kept anything down in over 24 hours, including water, and before that, the only thing he kept down was the 2 litres of IV fluid they gave him on Friday. His energy levels are so low because hes dehydrated, he cant walk any more.

OP posts:
Chocolateship · 02/07/2023 12:16

It is underfunded, it can be true that there are also areas that are mismanaged. Other systems are hybrid and so government funding isn't the whole story, nothing has been done to account for the increasingly elderly population either which has been on the horizon for many years.

The real issue at the centre of all of this is the lack of quality healthcare staff, from HCAs through to consultants (obviously including nurses and AHPs)- all of which are essential to a functioning healthcare system.

ExtraOnions · 02/07/2023 12:18

I think it depends.

DM had a severe stroke last week, we found her ok your floor .. called 999, ambulance was there in 20 minutes. She was taken to a regional centre, excellent ward with all the right professions on, she was assessed by the right services, scanned etc. Now been moved to a local hospital … ward isn’t as nice, but can’t fault the care, she’s getting physio every day, Dr ever day, other therapies.

Shes unlikely to get her mobility back, so we’ll have some hard decisions to make, but the care (so far) has been great.

eggsbenedict23 · 02/07/2023 12:19

We all get crap healthcare with long wait times yet say how grateful we are that we have the NHS.

Newsflash you can have universal coverage without a NHS.

Original poster
ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 12:20

The care from the staff has been great, its just more and more clear how stretched they all are.

Other thing i noticed was weve been asked several times if we have our own sick bowl (which we do, well we brought a mixing bowl from home..) so that they dont have to give us any of the hospital disposable ones. So im guessing resources of these are low/being rationed as well. Previous visits theyve always seemed to prefer to move you straight away onto hospital issued bowl, but not any more apparently.

OP posts:
Yabbadabbadotime · 02/07/2023 12:22

We have less nurses and doctors per head than basically any other country in Europe, and they are paid less.

If the health service is adequately funded (i do not think thats true, given that too much is going on topping up the social care underspend), the money isn't going to the right place.

We need more, better paid, doctors and nurses. Working better hours, not constant overtime etc. Training numbers should be based on us needing enough nurses and doctors for them to work no more than forty hours per week.

Wishiwasatailor · 02/07/2023 12:23

thing is his bloods could be drrranged and “a bag of fluids” might actually make things worse in terms of kidney/endocrine. it needs to be reviewed by a doctor/ACP to make that decision. Have you been giving tiny sips of water - 5mls every 5 minutes?

Original poster
ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 12:24

Tiny sips of water is all hes been having for the last few days, and its all coming up.

OP posts:
Wishiwasatailor · 02/07/2023 12:26

go down to 2.5ml every 5 mins if he’s not tolerating 5ml

WetBandits · 02/07/2023 12:31

ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 12:12

I dont know what U&Es is. Hes had bloods taken, just waiting on them coming back.

Hes not kept anything down in over 24 hours, including water, and before that, the only thing he kept down was the 2 litres of IV fluid they gave him on Friday. His energy levels are so low because hes dehydrated, he cant walk any more.

Show quote history

U&Es are tests to check his electrolytes and kidney function. If the results aren’t back, it’s not as simple as giving him ‘a bag of fluids’ as he may need different additives within the bag to meet his needs. He may also have high levels or low levels of different electrolytes that might be exacerbated by giving him the wrong fluids. I know you’re worried and it’s frustrating but there is more to it than just putting up a bag of fluids. He is probably dehydrated for sure, just keep offering small sips of water. Flowers

Original poster
ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 12:32

Wishiwasatailor · 02/07/2023 12:26

go down to 2.5ml every 5 mins if he’s not tolerating 5ml

Im not measuring out his sips, but trust me that its tiny amounts at a time, and that he is not keeping anything down.

If it was able to be managed by taking tiny sips of water, then we wouldn't be in a&e...

OP posts:
DustyLee123 · 02/07/2023 12:33

They should be giving you a disposable vomit bowl or bed pan as they can’t dispose of your plastic bowl.

Original poster
ChatterMonkey · 02/07/2023 12:34

Sorry i dont mean to be short with anyone, its just frustrating to be waiting and not know whats going on.

But yes i can see its more complicated than i realise in terms of prescribing any treatment. Its just a shame it all happens so slowly. It just feels like they are currently working off obs from 4 hours ago, so by the time they do actually get round to treating, the situation is already worse, as hes had no treatment at all.

OP posts:
DustyLee123 · 02/07/2023 12:34

Just think how many pillows they could buy with one manager’s salary.

Tinkerbyebye · 02/07/2023 12:34

It’s not underfunded at all

it is terribly mismanaged, needs a complete overhaul and modernisation.