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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask anyone who knows about books/grammar/literary agents if this is as bad as I think?

117 replies

Thosebloodyfullstops · 02/07/2023 05:44

I wrote a book. I worked really hard on it - research, rewrites, etc - but my one blind spot that I’ve always struggled with is punctuation in direct speech.

So my sentence might read -

‘I am going out now.’ he said.

Instead of the correct -

‘I am going out now,’ he said.

I’m so hot on all other aspects of grammar and spelling but as I say just seem to have a blind spot about this!

Amyway I asked a friend to proof read the book in exchange for me doing him a few house related and driving favours of equal time and value. He is a comms expert and former journalist and sub editor. He sent the book back to me as a word doc saying it was all proofed grammatically and spelling wise. I didn’t give it a full read through afterwards again but began to send it out to agents, the first 50 pages anyway.

Anyway yesterday I did look and there are still lots of direct speech errors like the one above.

I KNOW I should have read it again and I KNOW I should have gone through it myself. So I don’t need lots of posters coming on to tell me that. I would just like to hear opinions on how bad it is. I’ve sent to about 15 agents so far. Will they just stop reading at the first punctuation error? Would my sample be rejected on that alone if they like the rest of my book?

Ugh just wish I could send myself back in time a month and undo all of the emails I sent out!

OP posts:
SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 02/07/2023 08:12

@heldinadream thanks! Your attention to detail is much better than mine Grin

flyhome · 02/07/2023 08:13

Ha. I wouldn't worry. Booker prize winner "Girl, Woman, Other" has got NO punctuation. How it got past the subs I have no idea. Unreadable because of it, IMO

Nooneknowswhatgoesonbehindcloseddoors · 02/07/2023 08:22

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 08:12

It would put me off, sorry. And be aware that something like under 1% of submissions get accepted anyway.

This is unfortunately the harsh truth. For a first time author to send out work with consistent errors is a really bad look. Those who say they have read published books with errors in - well, it's a totally different thing for the publishers to make mistakes. That's on them. Your responsibility as an author is to ensure that you send out a professional looking manuscript.

Agents/publishers receive tons of manuscripts a week. Yours is not going to stand out if it contains consistent errors. It just looks unprofessional. Don't let people on here lull you into a false sense of security. Recall the manuscript and send them one you are happier with and which reflects your professionalism.

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 08:39

BTW OP in British English the comma would be outside the inverted commas. Comma inside is US English.

ThatFraggle · 02/07/2023 08:44

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 08:39

BTW OP in British English the comma would be outside the inverted commas. Comma inside is US English.

Are you sure about that?

Changingplace · 02/07/2023 08:45

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 08:39

BTW OP in British English the comma would be outside the inverted commas. Comma inside is US English.

That makes more sense to me, I don’t think it looks right and I work in Comms 😁

ThatFraggle · 02/07/2023 08:46

Just checked BBC bitesize KS3 and they say inside.

The traditional difference between British and American is single/double marks

'
"

Changingplace · 02/07/2023 08:47

flyhome · 02/07/2023 08:13

Ha. I wouldn't worry. Booker prize winner "Girl, Woman, Other" has got NO punctuation. How it got past the subs I have no idea. Unreadable because of it, IMO

Yeah to be fair lots of published books have the authors own style, Normal People has no speech punctuation and have you read Milkman? It’s weird to get into but it works!

GlassWall · 02/07/2023 08:53

An agent is looking for something s/he can sell — if everything else works, and they think it’s very marketable, it’s not likely to be something that tips them into a ‘no’. If an agent asks you for the full MS, make sure it’s error-free, and let the others you’ve queried know.

YouJustDoYou · 02/07/2023 08:54

They won't care, if the story-telling itself is stellar.

It's nowhere near as bad as the book I bought whereby the writing, instead of saying "sat on the floor/fell on the floor" kept saying "fell in the floor, sat in the floor, walked in the floor". Drove me barmy, simply couldn't finish the book after that idiocy.

Corgilicious · 02/07/2023 08:58

Agents and publishers are both looking for a story - and a voice - that they can sell; they genuinely won't care about a bit of rogue punctuation.

FurryPelmet · 02/07/2023 09:01

That’s their job and these are minor things so I wouldn’t worry.

With the speech, I didn’t know if you wanted some help on knowing how to punctuate it. If not, ignore this post but perhaps someone else reading the thread will find it useful. I’ve taught English for 20 years and have worked as a proofer.

A lot of people use quotation marks and speech marks interchangeably. Most proofreaders follow the rule that speech uses two “ and quotes use one ‘ . It just makes it clearer to have the distinction.

E.g “No!” she repeated.
Wordsworth describes the flowers as ‘dancing gaily.’

You don’t want two full stops in the same sentence, so the speech needs to end with ,?! and not a full stop if you’re going to extend the sentence beyond the last speech mark.

E.g
”That works for me,” she nodded.
“Are you sure?” Jake asked.
“Absolutely.”
Laura looked relieved. “That’s sorted.”

In the UK, the punctuation definitely goes inside the speech marks.

Good luck with your book!

determinedtomakethiswork · 02/07/2023 09:05

She can't nod dialogue!

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 09:15

Are you sure about that?

It was the rule when I worked in publishing and it crops up on a million style guides. As do single quote marks for UK English, though doubles are now gaining ground.

krystalweedon · 02/07/2023 09:29

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 08:39

BTW OP in British English the comma would be outside the inverted commas. Comma inside is US English.

"That is absolutely incorrect," said Krystal.

krystalweedon · 02/07/2023 09:36

Randomly selected current best seller. Check out the punctuation of the dialogue.

read.amazon.co.uk/sample/B09SH8Z3ZN?f=1&l=en_GB&r=9192a3d2&rid=M8VQFSRDGT9ZH9S5XF1W&sid=262-0232775-0871602&ref_=litb_m

krystalweedon · 02/07/2023 09:43

FurryPelmet · 02/07/2023 09:01

That’s their job and these are minor things so I wouldn’t worry.

With the speech, I didn’t know if you wanted some help on knowing how to punctuate it. If not, ignore this post but perhaps someone else reading the thread will find it useful. I’ve taught English for 20 years and have worked as a proofer.

A lot of people use quotation marks and speech marks interchangeably. Most proofreaders follow the rule that speech uses two “ and quotes use one ‘ . It just makes it clearer to have the distinction.

E.g “No!” she repeated.
Wordsworth describes the flowers as ‘dancing gaily.’

You don’t want two full stops in the same sentence, so the speech needs to end with ,?! and not a full stop if you’re going to extend the sentence beyond the last speech mark.

E.g
”That works for me,” she nodded.
“Are you sure?” Jake asked.
“Absolutely.”
Laura looked relieved. “That’s sorted.”

In the UK, the punctuation definitely goes inside the speech marks.

Good luck with your book!

"That works for me,” she nodded.

AAAAGH! The only way that sentence would work for me would be:

She nodded. "That works for me."

Better still, either axe the nodded as it is clear from the dialogue she agrees. Or axe the dialogue and just use she nodded.

Archeron · 02/07/2023 09:47

Both of your examples are incorrect though. In British English the punctuation goes outside the quotes.

CheekyHobson · 02/07/2023 09:50

Editors are looking for great original ideas, vivid imagery, clever plotting and pacing and and memorable dialogue. If you have those things, frankly it doesn’t matter if there’s a spelling or punctuation mistake in every paragraph. That’s what copy-editors are for.

HumanBurrito · 02/07/2023 09:55

It probably matters to an agent though, since they are looking for more than just a story. They are looking to represent an author and it makes their job easier if that author is attuned to professional expectations. The occasional typo is fine, but a glaring error on page one (not saying this is the case for you BTW OP! depends how systematic it is[* will be offputting. And since they're getting hundreds of submissions a week, they can afford to be picky. Given a roughly 0.25% acceptance rate from the slush pile, anything that creates a bad impression is to be avoided.

*No idea why but closing parentheses always come out as square brackets for me on MN...

SoupDragon · 02/07/2023 10:01

I was taught that the punctuation goes within the speech marks and I was taught in the 70s.

PriamFarrl · 02/07/2023 10:03

Given that I’ve read published books with glaring spelling errors I can’t imagine it would matter that much.

krystalweedon · 02/07/2023 10:06

Archeron · 02/07/2023 09:47

Both of your examples are incorrect though. In British English the punctuation goes outside the quotes.

Not in fiction dialigue. Punctuation inside. always.

I have had three fiction books published by a major publisher and not one editor or proof reader ever suggested the punctuation should be outside the speech marks.